What is a Podcast? - PCI 347

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He's not on Apple, he is not
on YouTube. He is not on any,

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any podcast related thing. He
is not on any social stuff,

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but he still can podcast. Whether or
not you don't want to go search him out,

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that's up to you. Right?

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But that's up to you. That's that's
the way it should be, right? Yeah.

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You know, and part of free speech, you
know, I always been told that, you know,

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free speech is not for
stuff you agree with.

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It's more important for
stuff you don't agree with.

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Definitely.

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You're listening to Podcast Insider,
a weekly podcast, bringing insights,

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advice, and insider tips and
tricks to help you start, grow,

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and thrive through podcasting.

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With the support of your team here
at Blueberry Podcasting, welcome.

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Let's dive in.

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This is Todd Cochran, c e o
and co-founder of Blueberry.

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And I'm Mike Dell, VP of Customer
Relations here at Blueberry.

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And this week we're gonna
answer the age old question,

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what is a podcast and
what is not a podcast?

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And we also have an interview with Tom
Rossi from the Podcast Standards Project.

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So, Mike, oh, oh boy.

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Everyone's trying to define a podcast
these days, which is kind of, uh,

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ironic, or they're trying
to redefine a podcast. Yeah.

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I think it's more of a redefine, but
you know, there's, there's lots of, uh,

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ways of defining podcasts. So, uh,

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we asked a bunch of people on our
staff here what they thought a podcast

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was. Of course,

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the dictionary definitions from
the Oxford English Dictionary

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official.

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It's a digital audio file made available
on the internet for downloading to a

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computer or a mobile device,
typically available as a series,

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new installments of which can
be received by subscribers.

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Notice that word automatically. .

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You know,

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one thing that we need to emphasize
here is that there's really should

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be two mindsets. And, um,
number one, as a listener,

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listeners at this point,

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they are just interested in getting access
to the content that they wanna listen

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to.

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And I think that's spying from a listener
standpoint in understanding that,

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uh, podcasts come in, uh, many shapes
and forms. Could be audio or video,

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primarily audio though, uh, in a
traditional sense. But as a podcaster,

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as a podcaster,

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we need to understand really a little
more on the technical side so that

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we understand the value
and what podcasting has,

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has done for the space. I, I
think we'll get into that more,

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a little bit deeper. But I think we
can start off with some of the, uh,

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responses from team members here
at Blueberry than Mike. And you,

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you and I can have a little
discussion about it. Dave said,

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from a non-technical side, a
podcast is a collection of episodes,

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which can be audio, video, but audio's
the most widely used form of media.

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It becomes a podcast when
it's distributed by an RSS

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feed. So that was from Dave.
And it's interesting, he said,

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from a non-technical side, it's
distributed by an RSS feed.

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That's a good technical
sometimes, but .

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Yeah.

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Yeah. So, uh, Aaron, uh, our
graphic designer, he said,

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a podcast is a digital broadcast
about a topic or a series of topics,

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so that could cover a lot of stuff,

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YouTube and TikTok and
all that stuff. So, uh,

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he has a little wider definition.

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Cindy, who is on our
social team, she says,

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A podcast is a storytelling tool.
And I, I agree with that a lot.

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Yeah, no, nothing wrong with
that. And, you know, and,

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and you were talking about, there's
two different ways to look at that.

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It listeners and, you know, creators,

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but there's kind of a, a
third one is, you know,

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when you're doing the creation side
of it and don't care about the tech,

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that's what Cindy's kinda after,
you know, it's, uh, right.

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I make the content and then
distribute it many different ways.

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So, you know, podcasting,
maybe one of those.

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B Barry said,

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podcasting is a revolution similar to
Guttenberg invention of the printing

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press, allowing the spread
of the written, written word.

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Whereas podcasting allows the
spreading of the spoken word.

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Yep. That, uh, that makes sense
too, you know? Well, you know,

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for the longest time radio, if
you wanted to be on the radio,

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there was huge gatekeepers. You
know, there wasn't, you know,

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a place where you could just, you know,

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flip on a transmitter and start
transmitting legally, you know,

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nowadays you can go
worldwide with just a simple

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microphone, a computer, a
phone, internet connection,

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and that's all you need to get stuff out.

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Whereas back in the day,
it was harder to do that.

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And that is similar to, you know, the
printing press of being important.

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Of course, Mackenzie on her co-host
on here, she said, uh, on demand,

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mainly audio storytelling
content for the most part. Yeah,

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it is just storytelling. There
are plenty different formats.

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You guys talked about that in
a previous episode. You know,

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the different formats of podcasts.

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So it may not always be a storytelling,

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but in any, you know, like a news
news thing would be a story. So,

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yeah, I guess it is
storytelling. That makes sense.

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Mike, I see that you ran the, uh, you
asked chat g b t for the definition.

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Yes. Very humorous one.
Yeah. Podcast, A noun.

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A series of digital audio files in which
people have passionate discussion about

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everything from true
crime to potted plants,

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providing imperfect excuse to ignore
your to-do list, procrastinate on chores,

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and avoid awkward small talk
with strangers during commutes.

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Often mistaken for an invisible friend
when listeners are caught laughing alone

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in public. So I think I did a
pretty good job on the humor there.

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A little bit fun from
a podcast standpoint.

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And I think about, you know,

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when I'm on an airplane going somewhere
and I'm listening to something,

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I just start laughing cuz
I'm, you know, I'm listening.

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The person next to me in the seat
probably thinks I'm crazy, but .

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Anyway, I thought that was fun.

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You know, it's, uh, the podcast
and the reason we've been talking,

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wanna talk about this today, really
truly boils down to is No, recently,

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recently, YouTube is
released a podcast section,

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and most of the podcasts that are in
that section are all video podcast,

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but there's no r s s speed. So in a
sense, they might be podcasts, but,

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you know, really just video
channels. There's some,

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been some stuff that showed up on, uh,

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YouTube music that looks more
like a podcast with audio content,

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but sometimes it's just
repurposed video. Matter of fact,

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my show shows up on YouTube music to name,

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and they strip the audio out of the
video for the video portion of my show.

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So it is a little bit of a misnomer,

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but if I really look at the
definition of podcasting, and again,

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this is kind of the old curmudgeon in me
comes out because I've been here really

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from the beginning and understand the
true reason that podcasting really

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exploded, uh,

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when it came on the scene in 2004
was while we were blogging and

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had this freedom expression online at
that time, and the internet was, uh,

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really ramping up and, you know,
it become quite the mainstay.

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The ability to distribute audio
or video at that point was pretty

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difficult. You could do
it on your own webpage.

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People may find it if they might
have been able to play it, if they,

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there was a flash player.

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There was nothing simple
really even about getting audio

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online. And if you wanted to
have it distributed, again,

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you had to sign contracts and make
deals with big companies that were the

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gatekeepers.

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So when the simple realization
was made that we could

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link audio that we created in a RSS feed,

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which is basically extensible
markup language XML that

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contains, uh,

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gobbly gloop that makes your
eyes glaze over when you read it.

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But there's a tag in
there called an Enclosure.

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And that enclosure basically
was the ability to say,

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here's the hyperlink to the media file
and here's the media type and allowed

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software packages then to
read that file and say, oh,

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there's a brand new episode.

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And put that into a library that like we
see today on Apple Podcast and Overcast

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and Podcast and all these great podcast
apps and even on podcast websites.

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So the ability was really
profound. At that time,

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we didn't have a TikTok. There was
no YouTube, there was no LinkedIn,

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there was no Twitter. None of this
existed when podcasting started.

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So if podcasting had come later,

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it may not have had the success that it
had if it hadn't been introduced when it

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was because it filled the need
to be able to syndicate content

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without really any controls. So you'll,

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Mike, you and I talk about often that
the, and and Mackenzie as well, that the,

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you know, the rssv like your radio tower,

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it gives you the ability to
broadcast a k a syndicate, uh,

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your content only the differences.
Instead of putting out a signal,

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people come to your radio tower
and grab the media file and,

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and put that in their devices. And so,

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r s s in itself has revolutionized
and made podcasting what it is today

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by being open. And I, I continue to
call it the last bastion of free speech,

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because if you are
publishing your podcast in

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the traditional way with an RSS feed,

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you have almost a guarantee that you
never can be silenced if you're on your

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own.com. Now, granted,

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99.9% of people are never gonna have an
issue with being taken down or removed

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off a platform. But
YouTube itself has been,

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and even Spotify has removed a lot of
content that they deem not appropriate

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by just saying one wrong
word in the content.

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So the key difference here is,
is that you control your shingle.

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You control your, your, your brand,
and you have the ability to, to,

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to distribute and syndicate your
content as you wish where you want it.

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So for me, podcasting, ultimately,

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I guess my definition of is the
ability to consume and distribute

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the content that I want in a
way that cannot be silenced,

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uh, from a podcast R S S V. Now, my
audience, , on the other hand,

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most of 'em, you know, they,
they may go to Spotify,

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they might go to Apple Podcast, they
might follow the show or subscribe.

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They may listen on Amazon music,
they may listen on YouTube. I don't,

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I really don't care where they listen,

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but ultimately they know it's a
podcast and it's available via RSS feed

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podcasters. I think that's really
the key here is we technically,

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as podcasters need to know the
technical definition of a podcast,

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but for our audience, we don't really
have to remind them. They don't care.

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Just say, Hey, I'm.

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Hill.

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No, no, not at all.

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In my case, my, I think of
podcasting in two ways. One,

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it's a distribution method
for your content. Simple.

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Just like YouTube is a
distribution platform,

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Spotify is a distribution platform.
There's other, you know, other ways of,

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you know, TikTok and, you know,

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all that stuff is a way to
distribute your content.

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Podcasting is just one of them.
It's, it's different from television,

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it's different from radio,
it's different from YouTube.

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It's different from a lot of these
things. You know, as far as the end user,

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like you said, it's not really,

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they don't care as long as they can
get it. And, you know, the other thing,

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as a podcaster, I want them to
know where Homebase is. Of course.

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That way if I ever disappear from one
of the other ones, you can find me,

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no problem. And then on the other
side, it, uh, it's a creative outlet,

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you know, and just like
a YouTube channel can be,

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or a TikTok channel or Facebook
for that matter, whatever,

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that's just an another place
to, uh, do content. Now,

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I, I prefer audio over video as far
as making content, you know, as,

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as the old joke goes, I
have a face for radio,

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it's a lot easier for me to flip on
the mic and start talking and not worry

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about whether I got a,

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a hanger outta my nose or a hair out of
place or something like that, you know?

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So, uh, but yeah, as far as the
a strict definition, you know,

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the listeners don't care.
Podcasters should just have a,

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an idea of what it is and how it works.

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I think for, you know,

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because now we have some
hosting platforms are making RSS

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optional, and that's really, really
too bad because they think, oh,

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I can just be on Spotify. I
don't need to be anywhere else.

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My podcast is over here.

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And what they're really doing is they're
missing opportunities for greater

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reach. The key really is,

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is the ability to have your listeners
be able to consume that content where,

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where you really want them. Now, if
you just want them to list on Spotify,

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that's fine. But if you want them
to have this, this global access,

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I think really the key here is, is the
ability to syndicate your content. And,

223
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and it'll be quite, if we think about
it, podcasting is really unique.

224
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To do a TikTok, you have to
be on TikTok to do YouTube,

225
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you have to be on YouTube to
post something on Instagram,

226
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you have to have an Instagram account.
Same thing with Twitter, with a podcast,

227
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you can, you, you really
can be everywhere.

228
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You can be on all of the apps
by simply having a single point

229
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of presence with the website
in your own r s s speed,

230
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or even a blueberry created feed within
our dashboard to be able to get this,

231
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this syndication everywhere.

232
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And it doesn't mean you
are just locked into one

233
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place for media consumption. Does that
make it confusing for the listeners?

234
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Maybe, but I think most podcasters
are gonna say, Hey, you know,

235
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followers subscribe to me over on Apple
Podcast or on Spotify or wherever you

236
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may listen to podcasts. And again,

237
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we know that podcasts are consumed
really at this point on over 300

238
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different platforms and locations.
So they listen far and wide.

239
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And many times people listen in areas
that I didn't even know my show was being

240
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syndicated to because the
RSS feed was picked up,

241
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it was added to a directory.
It may have been added to a, a,

242
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a tech site where there was
a, a section for podcasts,

243
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or could have been in a business.

244
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Podcasts are now expanding
beyond traditional platforms

245
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that we consume and are being picked up
all over place because the RSS is open

246
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and it's about syndication.

247
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:19,840
Yep, for sure. And, uh, as you've
said, and I've said, and you know,

248
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everybody says it's, you know, don't care
where you listen, as long as you, uh,

249
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can find us and listen,
that's great, .

250
00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:28,960
And there's, there's no rules. You know,

251
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you have the ability to create the content
you want, the way you wanna make it,

252
00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:33,840
and that's, that's the
beauty of it as well.

253
00:15:34,830 --> 00:15:39,250
So, uh, hey, uh, after this we're
gonna have a, uh, interview. I,

254
00:15:39,450 --> 00:15:43,930
I did with, uh, Tom Rossi of Buzz
Sprout, believe it or not, but, uh,

255
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,370
he's kind of one of the co-founders
of the, uh, podcast standards project.

256
00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:52,050
We're gonna talk about that a
little bit right after this.

257
00:15:52,630 --> 00:15:56,490
And if you get a chance, give us some
feedback. What do you think a podcast is?

258
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,890
Drop us An email. Email link
will be in the show notes.

259
00:16:04,410 --> 00:16:08,830
And today I, on the show I have
Tom Rossi from Buzz Sprout,

260
00:16:08,970 --> 00:16:13,550
and more importantly to me anyway,
the podcast Standards project.

261
00:16:13,650 --> 00:16:15,150
How you doing, Tom? Pretty.

262
00:16:15,150 --> 00:16:16,710
Good. Pretty good. Thanks for having me.

263
00:16:17,060 --> 00:16:21,470
Yeah, I figured, uh, you were one of the
founders of this, uh, new project, and,

264
00:16:21,530 --> 00:16:26,110
uh, and I, and I feel bad because I
haven't really dug into it too much,

265
00:16:26,170 --> 00:16:29,670
so I figured I'd get it from the
horse's mouth. I appreciate it.

266
00:16:30,020 --> 00:16:33,030
Tell us a little bit about
yourself first, and then, uh,

267
00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:34,470
we can get into the subject.

268
00:16:35,180 --> 00:16:37,510
Sure, sure. So, so my name's Tom Rossi.

269
00:16:37,630 --> 00:16:41,870
I am one of the co-founders of
Buzz Sprout, and just a big,

270
00:16:42,170 --> 00:16:45,390
big fan of podcasting and wanna
see it continue to thrive.

271
00:16:46,820 --> 00:16:50,150
Well, that's good. Yeah. We all do
mm-hmm. for sure.

272
00:16:50,450 --> 00:16:52,870
And yeah, this new project,
you know, like I said,

273
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:55,510
I've kind of paid some
attention to it. Of course,

274
00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:58,790
Todd's big involved into
that. And, you know,

275
00:16:58,790 --> 00:17:02,550
I hear stuff and I read some stuff
on the, on the, uh, you know,

276
00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:06,030
on the back end there, uh, what do
they call it? Base Camp? Mm-hmm.

277
00:17:06,070 --> 00:17:08,670
, something like that.
I guess it's better than Slack.

278
00:17:08,990 --> 00:17:09,823
I don't know.

279
00:17:10,070 --> 00:17:13,670
. Yeah. Yeah. The
idea is to have, you know,

280
00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:16,990
some focused conversations,
slack makes it kind of hard to,

281
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:18,870
it's just all over the place.

282
00:17:19,490 --> 00:17:23,990
So that was the idea as we were
trying to get our ducks in a row of

283
00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:27,350
what exactly can we do, what
exactly could we launch?

284
00:17:27,650 --> 00:17:30,950
That's what we used it for. But now
everything is moved into GitHub,

285
00:17:30,970 --> 00:17:33,270
and that's where all the
communication is taking place,

286
00:17:33,270 --> 00:17:37,670
so we can be entirely transparent and
anybody can go see the conversations that

287
00:17:37,670 --> 00:17:38,790
are, that are taking place.

288
00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:40,950
Yeah, a lot of the, uh,

289
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:45,470
podcast industry has joined in
and helping out here, of course,

290
00:17:45,650 --> 00:17:50,160
us here at Blueberry and you Buzz
Sprout, captivate, red Circle,

291
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,000
r s s, translator, acas Casto.

292
00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:57,000
So a lot of hosting
companies are jumping in.

293
00:17:58,110 --> 00:18:02,480
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's been great.
Everyone was really open and it was fun.

294
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,760
I mean, to have competitors that can,
you know, work together, this is,

295
00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:08,240
it's just kind of fun to do that.

296
00:18:08,310 --> 00:18:10,800
Yeah. What do we call that?
F Frenemies? No, frenemies.

297
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:12,020
.

298
00:18:12,020 --> 00:18:15,520
Not really. We all kind of hang
out at the, at the shows and stuff.

299
00:18:15,700 --> 00:18:20,400
We all mingle amongst each other and
pretty much know everybody at a lot of the

300
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,800
places. I know a couple people from Buzz
Sprout. I think I, I know I've met you,

301
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,320
but I don't remember
where, or when .

302
00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:29,840
I'm sure at one of these conferences.

303
00:18:30,030 --> 00:18:32,600
Well, it might have been Pod
Fest in Florida sometime.

304
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:35,320
Yeah. I love, I love going to, uh,

305
00:18:35,340 --> 00:18:40,120
the conferences and being able to meet
real customers, not virtually .

306
00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:44,000
Yeah. Yeah. I spend a lot of my
time with customers virtually,

307
00:18:44,060 --> 00:18:47,040
and it is definitely fun
going to those things.

308
00:18:47,980 --> 00:18:52,720
So the podcast Standards project,
uh, looking right at the site here,

309
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,520
it says, advocating for Open Podcasting,

310
00:18:56,460 --> 00:18:59,960
that's similar to the
Podcasting 2.0, but not exactly.

311
00:19:00,380 --> 00:19:02,000
How do the two projects differ?

312
00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:07,120
Well, podcasting 2.0 movement is,

313
00:19:08,660 --> 00:19:13,600
you know, this is kind of part of it
where we're advocating for podcasting, um,

314
00:19:13,620 --> 00:19:18,360
but we're not actually coming up with
the ideas and, you know, running, they,

315
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:19,760
they say, you know, running with Scissors,

316
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,080
this idea of just trying different
things and breaking stuff and, you know,

317
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,040
this is more the committee,

318
00:19:26,180 --> 00:19:30,200
the slower adoption of those
standards as they come out.

319
00:19:30,660 --> 00:19:34,520
And it's really, I mean, it's really
based on what we saw in, you know,

320
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,440
the late nineties with
the web standards project,

321
00:19:36,750 --> 00:19:41,600
when we really needed to have
some standardization of what web

322
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:42,720
browsers were gonna support.

323
00:19:42,790 --> 00:19:45,360
Even though there was tons of
ideas that were coming out,

324
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:49,800
there were tons of tags that were being
created. Um, we needed somebody else to,

325
00:19:49,820 --> 00:19:53,400
to help say, okay, well, which
ones can we agree to, to adopt?

326
00:19:53,580 --> 00:19:54,960
So that way we can see 'em move forward.

327
00:19:55,260 --> 00:19:57,840
And that's really what the
standards project is able to do,

328
00:19:58,260 --> 00:20:01,960
is to get together and say, okay,
well, what can we all agree ?

329
00:20:02,010 --> 00:20:04,840
Where where can we, you
know, start to, to do this,

330
00:20:04,940 --> 00:20:09,760
but always with the intent of
advocating for keeping podcasting

331
00:20:09,790 --> 00:20:14,200
open, keeping it something that is
driven primarily by r s s since that's,

332
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:17,240
that's the protocol that's gotten
us where we are. And so that's,

333
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,720
that's kind of, you know, how
they relate to each other.

334
00:20:20,730 --> 00:20:23,580
Yeah. We've, uh, we've been
adopting a lot of the, uh,

335
00:20:24,110 --> 00:20:28,060
podcasting 2.0 features as we
like to call 'em, instead of tags,

336
00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:30,900
everybody's eyes glaze over
when you say tags, .

337
00:20:30,930 --> 00:20:32,860
Yeah. Yeah. And, and hopefully,

338
00:20:32,860 --> 00:20:37,460
hopefully most podcasters won't ever
have to know any of this stuff. Right.

339
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:38,140
Um,

340
00:20:38,140 --> 00:20:42,980
the only reason it's important right
now is just that they're aware that

341
00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:43,430
there,

342
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:48,280
there are companies that would like
to shut the door on podcasting.

343
00:20:48,350 --> 00:20:51,080
They would like to make it
a closed garden. You know,

344
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,320
they don't want it to be open to everyone.

345
00:20:53,580 --> 00:20:57,280
And so podcasters need to be aware
of that. But that's, you know, and,

346
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,000
and that we're hoping the podcast
Scanners project can be something they can

347
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,520
rally behind, even if
they don't understand it.

348
00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:05,840
But they do understand the idea that
I want my podcast to be available

349
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:06,480
everywhere.

350
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,160
I don't want it to only show up in one
place where they could just turn me off

351
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:10,910
tomorrow.

352
00:21:10,910 --> 00:21:11,920
Yeah. And that's, uh,

353
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,920
that's one of the things we talked
about earlier in the show when, uh,

354
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,880
Todd and I were talking
about what is a podcast?

355
00:21:19,220 --> 00:21:22,280
And that's kind of what the
standards project's gonna do,

356
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,840
is it's gonna sort of define
technically, you know,

357
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,440
what is a compliant
podcast, kind of, but not,

358
00:21:32,060 --> 00:21:34,480
not in a, a hard handed
way, I don't think.

359
00:21:35,450 --> 00:21:39,040
Right. Yeah. Just so that
there's some agreement in what,

360
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:40,880
what the terms mean.

361
00:21:41,310 --> 00:21:45,400
Yeah. That's, uh, that's one of the things
in podcasting that's always vexed me,

362
00:21:45,580 --> 00:21:48,840
uh, uh, working in support
and, and all that. You know,

363
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,080
when someone says the word
show, what does that mean? Yeah.

364
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:52,860
. Yeah.

365
00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:56,280
It could be an episode, it could
be the overall show, you know,

366
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,600
that kind of thing. And yeah, so
it'd be good to have, you know,

367
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:04,720
a little bit of kind of a standards.
I, I kind of equate it to the, uh,

368
00:22:04,970 --> 00:22:09,600
stats thing from, uh,
iab. It's not a hard,

369
00:22:09,710 --> 00:22:10,560
fast rule,

370
00:22:10,820 --> 00:22:15,120
but if you have these certain things and
they work the way they're supposed to,

371
00:22:15,230 --> 00:22:16,920
then your standards compliant.

372
00:22:18,430 --> 00:22:22,360
Yeah. It's very, it's similar in
that it's, it's a set of standards,

373
00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:25,200
but where it's different
is that we want it to be,

374
00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:29,720
we don't want there to be a dollar
value attached to it. So like,

375
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,680
there's some obstacle for innovation
because they don't, they're,

376
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,280
they can't spend the money to be able
to, you know, get their IB certification.

377
00:22:36,540 --> 00:22:40,360
But by putting everything out there and
making it so that anybody can go and

378
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:44,320
read what does it take to build a
podcast standards, project compliant,

379
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,120
A P S P compliant r s s feed, we wanna
just make that available to everyone.

380
00:22:49,710 --> 00:22:54,040
Yeah, that's a, a good way to do
it. You know, for the longest time,

381
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,920
like you said, uh, you know, the
suits are coming and you know,

382
00:22:58,980 --> 00:23:01,280
you, you look at outfits like Spotify,

383
00:23:01,950 --> 00:23:05,640
they bought a hosting company and
then they made r s s optional,

384
00:23:06,570 --> 00:23:09,400
which it's their company.
They can do what they want,

385
00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:14,320
but those podcasters, they'll use
air quotes that are on that platform,

386
00:23:15,250 --> 00:23:20,120
don't realize what distribution
they're missing out on by being simply

387
00:23:20,180 --> 00:23:24,960
on Spotify. And, you know, and I
also look at YouTubers. I, I know,

388
00:23:25,060 --> 00:23:28,840
you know, several YouTubers that
make their living doing YouTube.

389
00:23:29,870 --> 00:23:33,800
What happens if YouTube decides they don't
like 'em one day, boom, they're gone.

390
00:23:35,140 --> 00:23:37,440
And with podcasting in general, and,

391
00:23:37,660 --> 00:23:40,920
and with the standards
project and podcasting 2.0,

392
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:44,640
it's gonna make that less
likely to happen. You know,

393
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,160
you can still get sort
of canceled, but it,

394
00:23:47,180 --> 00:23:51,120
it takes a lot more to
cancel a podcast completely

395
00:23:51,910 --> 00:23:54,040
than it does to, uh, you know,

396
00:23:54,150 --> 00:23:57,360
just for YouTube to shut you
off or TikTok or whatever.

397
00:23:58,980 --> 00:24:02,990
Yeah. I mean, with an r s s feed, as long
as you've got an r s s feed, you can,

398
00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:04,150
you can keep it out there.

399
00:24:04,380 --> 00:24:06,590
They might be able to cancel
you from one place or another,

400
00:24:06,650 --> 00:24:10,310
but they can cancel you from
everywhere. If RSS goes away,

401
00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:11,350
that's what you start to lose.

402
00:24:12,330 --> 00:24:16,310
We use an example when we talk about
this, and it's probably a bad example,

403
00:24:17,130 --> 00:24:21,110
but Alex Jones, regardless of what
you think of him or what he does,

404
00:24:22,060 --> 00:24:26,030
he's still podcasting. He's not
on Apple, he is not on YouTube,

405
00:24:26,050 --> 00:24:29,110
he is not on any, any
podcast related thing.

406
00:24:29,180 --> 00:24:31,710
He's not on any social stuff,

407
00:24:32,210 --> 00:24:36,990
but he still can podcast. Whether or
not you don't want to go search him out,

408
00:24:36,990 --> 00:24:37,823
that's up to you.

409
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,510
Right. But that's up to you. That's
that's the way it should be. Right?

410
00:24:41,940 --> 00:24:45,670
Yeah. You know, and part of free speech,
you know, I always been told that,

411
00:24:45,670 --> 00:24:49,070
you know, free speech is not
for stuff you agree with.

412
00:24:49,540 --> 00:24:52,030
It's more important for
stuff you don't agree with.

413
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,433
Definitely.

414
00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:57,190
N no one ever talks about it a about
the things that you agree with .

415
00:24:57,580 --> 00:25:01,840
Yeah, exactly. This is interesting.

416
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,040
I have to get on the GitHub and
see what's going on over there.

417
00:25:05,980 --> 00:25:10,120
Now you guys have a couple of, uh, of
things that you've already proposed.

418
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:11,600
What are some of those?

419
00:25:12,790 --> 00:25:17,240
Well, what we did was we
started with just a few of the,

420
00:25:17,660 --> 00:25:20,600
the companies that were out there
got together and said, look, what,

421
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,160
can we just start to agree with what tags,

422
00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:26,240
what features are we willing to implement?

423
00:25:27,030 --> 00:25:31,160
Then we've proposed that as what
we're calling PSP one for the,

424
00:25:31,300 --> 00:25:36,000
the podcast RSS standard. And so
all of that is out and open for,

425
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:38,880
you know, any kind of debate, uh,

426
00:25:38,990 --> 00:25:41,200
over what would be included
and what it looks like.

427
00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:45,760
And that's in our GitHub under the,
the PSP one podcast, RSS standard.

428
00:25:46,260 --> 00:25:50,160
Uh, and so I'd encourage anybody who's
interested in like, having a voice in it,

429
00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:53,720
but this is not the place
to suggest new tags.

430
00:25:54,300 --> 00:25:59,040
You might advocate for a tag that's
already been adopted in the podcast index,

431
00:25:59,660 --> 00:26:03,000
but, uh, this is really more of
like, what do we want to say this,

432
00:26:03,070 --> 00:26:04,440
this is what we all agree to,

433
00:26:04,780 --> 00:26:07,440
and then hopefully we can get enough
people to do it that we get some critical

434
00:26:07,550 --> 00:26:09,480
mass to gain more adoption.

435
00:26:10,510 --> 00:26:13,600
Yeah. Cuz uh, you know,
podcast Index, that's,

436
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,280
that's where you would go to propose
new stuff because that's what they do.

437
00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:19,480
Mm-hmm. ,
this would be, okay,

438
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:24,480
we'll take some of those features
and propose that as something

439
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:29,040
that we all want to implement as hosting
companies and app developers. And,

440
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:34,480
and I guess, is that about it just
it's for podcast companies and,

441
00:26:34,580 --> 00:26:36,240
and developers or, yeah.

442
00:26:36,590 --> 00:26:38,640
Yeah. I mean, it's really
for the technical people,

443
00:26:39,060 --> 00:26:42,680
for the players and the hosts. You know,

444
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,760
those companies that are digesting r
s s feeds, but who knows what other,

445
00:26:46,830 --> 00:26:48,240
what other things will come out of it.

446
00:26:48,350 --> 00:26:52,320
Once you've got a group like this
that's agreeing on moving together,

447
00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:56,320
for example, like Pod Ping. Pod
Ping is the ability, you know,

448
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:01,320
when an r s s feed is updated, pod Ping
is a way to notify subscribers, Hey,

449
00:27:01,830 --> 00:27:05,720
this RSS feed has been updated rather
than some type of polling solution.

450
00:27:06,260 --> 00:27:10,000
But it's also been extended into things
like the lit tag to allow you to do

451
00:27:10,030 --> 00:27:12,080
live, live podcasting.

452
00:27:12,420 --> 00:27:16,720
And so as those kind of things that
aren't necessarily r s s tags, uh,

453
00:27:16,740 --> 00:27:18,800
as those things are adopted,

454
00:27:19,230 --> 00:27:21,840
this could be a group to
help advocate for that.

455
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:26,760
Yeah. Pod Ping's been kind of a game
changer for some of the new apps. And,

456
00:27:27,420 --> 00:27:31,600
you know, I noticed my app
that I listened to podcasts on,

457
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,480
in this case pod verse updates a
lot quicker than it did when I was

458
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,200
using Apple or Overcast, something
like that. And, you know,

459
00:27:41,340 --> 00:27:44,840
pod Ping, it's slick. I,
I like it. And you know,

460
00:27:45,020 --> 00:27:49,720
as a directory owner as well, you know,
with Blueberry, we have a, a directory,

461
00:27:50,450 --> 00:27:55,280
we're starting to ingest pod pings
and adding shows to our directory

462
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:58,640
just to, you know, it's
a listener directory.

463
00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:04,000
It also allows us to do other neat
things. So Yeah, it's a, it's,

464
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,840
it's a neat technology and it Yeah. It's
not necessarily an RSS thing, right.

465
00:28:09,220 --> 00:28:10,053
But.

466
00:28:10,060 --> 00:28:13,120
It, it's a feature you've
probably done support as well.

467
00:28:13,820 --> 00:28:17,560
One of the big C places, I just posted
my episode and it's not on Apple yet.

468
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,640
What's wrong? Yeah. And it's
like, well, nothing's wrong.

469
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,240
Podcasting's a poll technology
and podcasting sort of,

470
00:28:26,430 --> 00:28:28,360
it's not really a push, but kinda.

471
00:28:29,110 --> 00:28:33,600
Yeah. And that's the, the friction
that exists in the,

472
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:38,080
in the podcasting world, right?
That they publish their episode,

473
00:28:38,140 --> 00:28:40,200
but there's a delay in how
long it takes to get out.

474
00:28:40,580 --> 00:28:43,560
That's how they experience the,
the friction and the issue.

475
00:28:43,860 --> 00:28:46,200
And then we get the emails,
right, we're the front lines.

476
00:28:46,300 --> 00:28:47,840
So we're the ones
supporting the podcaster.

477
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,880
We wanna help them have the
best experience possible.

478
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,360
They've been working hard to get their
content, they finally get it out there,

479
00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:58,560
and now they're at the mercy of some
polling algorithm to figure out when it's

480
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,120
time to pull down the RSS feed
versus something like Pod Ping,

481
00:29:02,330 --> 00:29:04,520
which just notifies them. I mean,

482
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,680
I like it as a technical person as
well because I feel like it is a better

483
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:09,760
technical solution.

484
00:29:10,060 --> 00:29:14,320
It doesn't make sense for you to hit my
RSS feed every five minutes to see if an

485
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,160
episode has been published. If an episode
hasn't been published in 12 months,

486
00:29:18,260 --> 00:29:19,320
it doesn't make, and you,

487
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,840
you're just taxing the internet
with your request.

488
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,480
. I mean, you know, when you're,

489
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,680
when you got 4 million shows to paying
every so often, that's, oh my gosh,

490
00:29:28,430 --> 00:29:33,280
when really exactly about
250,000 that are active at any,

491
00:29:33,580 --> 00:29:37,320
any given month. Maybe a little
more than that, but still,

492
00:29:37,740 --> 00:29:40,880
that's a whole lot less
that you have to pull,

493
00:29:41,330 --> 00:29:43,800
especially if someone's
got a monthly show. Okay,

494
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,680
so you're gonna hit them
20 times a day for 30 days.

495
00:29:47,060 --> 00:29:48,720
Mm-hmm. for that one time,

496
00:29:48,780 --> 00:29:50,840
for that one time that
they release an episode.

497
00:29:51,380 --> 00:29:52,213
And of course the,

498
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:56,480
the server's gonna ping it about 10
minutes before the episode goes live.

499
00:29:56,660 --> 00:29:59,400
So then they have to wait
another cycle. mm-hmm.

500
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,920
just how it goes. But
I don't wanna get too geeky here,

501
00:30:02,980 --> 00:30:06,200
but this is a geeky project and
that's . That's good. It is.

502
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,280
Cause you know, someone needs
to be doing the tech, you know,

503
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,080
the goal is to make the tech disappear,

504
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:16,160
but you gotta do the tech to
make it disappear. .

505
00:30:16,670 --> 00:30:18,160
Yeah, exactly. As far.

506
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:19,560
As the end users anyway,

507
00:30:19,580 --> 00:30:23,080
the listeners don't care as long
as they get their shows, you know,

508
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,680
definitely the, the podcast creators do.

509
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:29,440
Yeah. And the podcast creators, they,

510
00:30:29,910 --> 00:30:33,320
they know the pain
associated with the sporadic,

511
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,800
how long it takes to show up in different
places. Sometimes it's instantaneous,

512
00:30:37,140 --> 00:30:41,160
you know, and sometimes it's not.
And so they know that real pain.

513
00:30:41,460 --> 00:30:44,200
The, the fun one is, is when
somebody says the last 10,

514
00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:47,800
10 episodes have been an Apple within
the hour, and why is this one not?

515
00:30:48,660 --> 00:30:52,160
And you go look and nothing's wrong,
and you're like, uh, well I don't know.

516
00:30:52,390 --> 00:30:54,040
Apple's slow today. .

517
00:30:54,250 --> 00:30:59,200
Right, right. And we've all seen it where
there, there are issues, right? Yeah.

518
00:30:59,670 --> 00:30:59,960
Gosh,

519
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:04,280
it was a couple years ago where it was
taking forever for Apple to get updates.

520
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,720
And so we were just getting, our
support was just getting hammered. Um,

521
00:31:07,900 --> 00:31:10,880
and they don't understand. It's not
a, they don't love the response,

522
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:14,320
but there's nothing we can do. It's
in your RSS feed, you can go see it.

523
00:31:14,820 --> 00:31:16,360
That's the thing too, is, you know,

524
00:31:16,390 --> 00:31:21,200
different apps do different
things at different times and

525
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:23,800
hopefully with the standards project,

526
00:31:23,940 --> 00:31:28,520
the more apps that sign onto
it will adopt Pod Ping and,

527
00:31:29,140 --> 00:31:33,880
and some of these other features
and it'll make the experience the

528
00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:35,560
closer to the same,

529
00:31:35,790 --> 00:31:40,680
whether you're using Apple
Podcasts or Overcast or

530
00:31:41,270 --> 00:31:44,440
Android app or any of the
new apps. You know, so the,

531
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,520
the more apps that we
get on board with this,

532
00:31:47,820 --> 00:31:52,040
the better as well for the end
user and even the, uh, listeners.

533
00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:56,840
Yeah, definitely. We want listeners
will start to experience things,

534
00:31:57,660 --> 00:32:00,760
uh, like transcripts where they're
like, oh my gosh, this is so nice.

535
00:32:00,780 --> 00:32:02,000
If I listen in this player,

536
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,440
I can actually see a transcript
while I'm listening to the episode.

537
00:32:05,980 --> 00:32:08,680
And so then the listener even starts to
get involved cuz they're saying, well,

538
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,800
why is it that, um, in this app
I don't, but in this app I do.

539
00:32:12,340 --> 00:32:17,120
And so that's the hope with something
like the, the podcast standards project,

540
00:32:17,260 --> 00:32:19,760
we can advocate for
those types of features.

541
00:32:20,790 --> 00:32:23,000
Yeah. The transcript thing's big. I, I,

542
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,640
that was the first thing that we
adopted as a company. Blueberry.

543
00:32:27,380 --> 00:32:30,640
We adopted that for our
player, for our web player.

544
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:36,360
And that's been a game changer for a
lot of people that I think the more

545
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,680
of the use cases, people
that are hard of hearing,

546
00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:41,840
not necessarily completely deaf,

547
00:32:42,860 --> 00:32:46,520
or they're trying to learn English or
whatever other language as a second

548
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,760
language and they can kind of
follow along and, you know,

549
00:32:50,790 --> 00:32:54,360
same thing if it's right in your
app, that's even better. You know,

550
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,320
it's only some of the
apps do that right now,

551
00:32:56,420 --> 00:33:01,400
but hopefully we'll get more adoption
and that's a useful thing, you know,

552
00:33:01,420 --> 00:33:04,920
to the listeners and not
just for the podcasters,

553
00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:10,200
how do we get ahold of you or,
uh, the project? Gimme the spiel?

554
00:33:10,790 --> 00:33:12,080
Sure. I would, I would think the,

555
00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:15,480
the best place to start is
probably the pod standards website,

556
00:33:15,820 --> 00:33:17,160
pod standards.org.

557
00:33:17,660 --> 00:33:20,840
And then there's links to our GitHub and
our Twitter account and everything from

558
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,560
there. So you can check
out what it means to,

559
00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:26,480
to get involved and what the
things are that we're proposing.

560
00:33:26,980 --> 00:33:29,520
So I would definitely encourage anybody
that's interested in the project to go

561
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:30,480
to pod standards.org.

562
00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:32,160
Okay, very good.

563
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,840
And we'll have links in the show
notes to all this stuff as podcasters.

564
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,200
Love to say over
and over and over again.

565
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,400
. And just to say too,

566
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,040
like you could reach out to any of the
companies that are listed on the site

567
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,400
there, and we're all in the same
boat. Like we all agree on what,

568
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,440
what you see on that website there.
So you don't have to reach out to me.

569
00:33:53,510 --> 00:33:56,720
Feel free to reach out to any of these
companies that are involved and let 'em

570
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:57,960
know. Let let 'em know what you think.

571
00:33:58,350 --> 00:34:02,400
Yeah, yeah. And definitely Todd's
big time involved in this, so, uh,

572
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:06,800
blueberry's a good place
to also ask about it.

573
00:34:06,930 --> 00:34:10,760
We'll try to answer. I'll send
you to Todd usually, but

574
00:34:12,660 --> 00:34:16,000
anyway, well, thanks for, uh,
being on today. That, that was, uh,

575
00:34:16,070 --> 00:34:17,040
that was great. You're the,

576
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,960
you're the first competitor
on our podcast Insider show,

577
00:34:21,340 --> 00:34:25,040
so that's awesome. What's going on
at Buzz Sprout by the way? Just, oh.

578
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,520
I can't tell you. Can't tell
you. Okay. Good. .

579
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:30,960
I can't tell you either. .

580
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:35,520
Thanks for joining us. Let's meet
up next week and in the meantime,

581
00:34:35,580 --> 00:34:38,560
for more information to
subscribe, share or follow,

582
00:34:38,850 --> 00:34:43,600
check out the show
notes@podcastinsider.com to
check out our latest suite of

583
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,960
services and help Blueberry can
help you leverage your podcast.

584
00:34:46,130 --> 00:34:49,360
Visit blueberry.com. That's
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