May 18, 2023
Podcast Artwork Dos & Donts – PCI 346
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Paypal Your podcast’s artwork plays a crucial role in attracting potential listeners and setting the right tone for your show. In today’s episode we’re exploring the essential dos and don’ts when it comes to creating captivating podcast artwork. Let’s jump in with Blubrry’s graphic designer.
Today’s Hosts: MacKenzie Bennett and Aaron HopePodcasters ask us questions about podcast artwork regularly. We decided it was time to bring on a more creative and experienced person to guide us through our tips.
On this show we’ve had a few different versions of artwork and with each major change to the show we’ve updated the artwork. In that time, we’ve done our best to follow our own advice.
Dos- Meet the minimum requirements from Apple and other podcast directories. Not following these specs will get your podcast rejected from directories until errors have been corrected.
- Let it breathe. Your artwork should be easy to read and understand with a quick glance. Anything more is most likely to get lost in the crowd.
- Check out some of the current shows in directories, derive inspiration and figure out what not to do and ensure you’re not directly copying someone else.
- If you’re not comfortable creating your own artwork, hire someone else to do it for you. As the old adage goes, people will judge a podcast by its cover.
- Don’t create artwork before you do a deep dive into your listener persona / future audience.
- Keep it legible! Don’t combine colors, fonts, and too small text together. This is especially important because your artwork is most often shown on a phone/mobile device.
- Stay away from explicit content, intellectual property, branding, etc.
Get feedback from your friends and family during this process. You’ll likely have more than 1 iteration (you should!). Give yourself enough time before your podcast launch to make adjustments and get it just right.
Some examples discussed in this episode.
Got a subject you would like us to cover on the show, Drop an email to mike@blubrry.com (audio, text, video), and we may use it. You can also post a question on the Blubrry Podcasting Facebook group.
The best place for support with any Blubrry product or service is our ticket system (https://blubrry.com/support/). Tickets give the whole team access rather than direct emails or calls.
Fill out our listener survey at surveys.blubrry.com/podcastinsider
- Schedule a one-on-one with Todd (hosting customers only). Email todd@blubrry.com
- Schedule a tech checkup with Mike (hosting customers only). Email mike@blubrry.com
- Send us your podcast sticker and a self-addressed stamped envelope (SASE) and we will send you a Blubrry care package.
Our mailing address: Blubrry – MacKenzie 150 E. Campus View Blvd. #180 Columbus, Ohio 43235
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People see the question, upload your
artwork, and it, they literally freeze.
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Like they're fully frozen.
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And don't sign up for their podcast
just cuz they don't have artwork.
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And it's like, it should
never be that scary,
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that it literally stops you from creating.
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You're listening to Podcast Insider
hosted by Mike Dell, Todd Cochran,
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and Mackenzie Bennett
from the Blueberry team,
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bringing you weekly insights, advice,
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and insider tips and
tricks to help you start,
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grow and thrive through podcasting.
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With all the support of your team
here at Blueberry Podcasting, welcome.
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Let's dive in.
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I'm Mackenzie Bennett, marketing
specialist here at Blueberry. And.
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I'm Erin Hope, graphic
designer at Blueberry.
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Today we've brought on our special
guest from the blueberry team.
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We brought Erin on because we'll be
discussing some dos and don'ts of podcast
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artwork.
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Baby's first official podcast.
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I'm so excited to get you on here.
You've been with us for three years now.
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Yes. And we've talked about this day
forever, so it's, it's finally happening.
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I know, I'm glad we are. It's,
uh, it's also something like,
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this topic is something that
we've discussed wanting to
do for a very long time,
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but we've never really gone
into it that much because, well,
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none of us are graphic designers,
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so it felt like it was
appropriate to save it for someone
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worthwhile.
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Yes. And I,
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I'm very excited to share some some tips
and tricks because as a designer I like
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the internet to look better, uh,
, including the artwork, uh,
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that we see on these podcasts,
uh, dis distribution points. Yeah.
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I wholeheartedly agree
with that idea as a whole.
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I want the internet to look
better.. Mm-hmm.
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. Yeah.
That's why I do what I do.
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Well, okay. That goes into,
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we get podcasters at events on the
phone and emails like any single
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time someone is starting a show, unless
they're like a designer themselves,
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they usually ask a ton of
questions about podcast artwork.
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And so with this, we'll have
a blog post that, you know,
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kind of gives some examples that you
can visually look at. For example,
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like we've changed this podcast that
you're listening to right now many times
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over the years. And each time we've
had a different artwork to go with it,
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like we've maybe changed the name of the
show, the people behind the, you know,
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behind the mic and just given
it a facelift and update,
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whatever you wanna call it. And
the artwork changes every time.
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And most recently you helped us
with the latest iteration of Podcast
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Insiders. So what was
your experience with that?
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Um, it was definitely an experience cuz
it was my first time looking at podcast
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artworks from like that
designer perspective.
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Like from just like my critical
eye and just being like, okay,
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what are the trends?
What are the patterns?
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And then how can I bring that
into our artwork? So it was,
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it was definitely a fun
little challenge to do.
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And I definitely think we came to a
really good point where we have something
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that stands out, but also something
that, you know, speaks to the category,
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which is, you know, going inside podcasts.
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So that's why I literally put insider
inside that soundbar inside the r s
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s feed inside the audio
to show like we are,
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that's how deep we're going in podcasts
like this. In episodes like this,
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which we're about to deep dive,
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we're literally deep diving
into podcast artwork right now.
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I really wanted to show that like you
are getting an insider's perspective
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because everyone on here has
experience in podcasting,
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whether as a listener or as a creator.
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And we're putting all of our experiences
together to give you, um, you know,
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expert tips in the very
small little sound wave file.
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I know, I really enjoy this one, uh,
because it's so, it looks so simple,
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but it's so detail
oriented as well. So, uh,
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getting into some do's and don'ts. One
of the first ones that I had on here is,
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I don't get me wrong, I love the creative
perspective. However, real quick,
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people need to follow the minimum
requirements for podcast artwork,
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like the specs that are
required to create this.
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Cuz if you get that wrong, like you're
it, you're gonna have to redo it.
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Yep. And you know, we've even, I don't
know how much inside baseball we can say,
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but like, we've even taken
that question off of our like,
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new sign ups for podcasters. Just
because people see the question,
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upload your artwork, and
it, they literally freeze.
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Like they're fully frozen and don't
sign up for their podcast just cuz they
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don't have artwork. And it's like,
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it should never be that scary
that it literally stops you from
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creating. The best place to start is
to know the main general minimum rules,
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which, um, while Apple is not by
any means the king of podcast,
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they definitely have the strictest
rules when it comes to visuals.
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As we all know, apple is very
particular about their imagery. Um,
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so they are usually the the base
point that we use cuz it's like, okay,
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if you can upload it and
meet Apple standards,
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then you will meet the standards
pretty much anywhere else that you get
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podcasts.
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Exactly. It's when you're following them,
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you're gonna be okay with
everyone else. So real quick, uh,
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14 by 1400 or 3000 by 3000,
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that is the main one that
will trip some people up,
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but we'll have a link to those exact
specs that you should be following.
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So getting into the next one, I
like this bullet just because it's,
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let it breathe. Let your
podcast artwork breathe.
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Don't create something that is
too complicated because it's,
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it's not gonna get like, it's,
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it's due because podcast
artwork is too small.
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Yes. And that really brings up a
point that I'm sure we're gonna go in,
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which is just like text size and text in
general and making sure that it is big
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enough and in the right, you know,
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in the right area on the artwork
in order to be seen immediately and
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pretty much read like
within one or two seconds.
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Yeah. That, yes, that part definitely
goes into some don'ts as well.
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You know, there's, there's
the ying and the yang here,
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and for as complicated as you
want it to be, it might be fun,
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but it, it has to be legible.
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So one of the things that I really like
to tell people to do as well is to go
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into podcast directories and take a
look at what is on there currently,
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see what the general vibe is as
of variety now because you know
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it in any creative medium,
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trends come and go here. And so, you know,
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sometimes you'll see a lot of these
different types of colors or the spot
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or, you know, the
layout. It's, it's a lot.
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Yeah. And I would, I would say the
perfect example for this is, um,
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to look at just any kind of, any, any,
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any directory with true crime in it.
Like, because True crime became like,
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you know,
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surge during the pandemic and just
became this huge platform for so many
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different people,
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so many diverse opinions and
shockingly so many real true crime
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stories.
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And it has had many different alterations
as money has been thrown into the
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category, the designs have definitely
enhanced, definitely have changed.
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And if you just literally scroll down it,
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you can already start to see some
patterns, some different, you know,
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what's different, what's the same,
A lot of red, a lot of black,
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a lot of dark like gritty
imagery, usually like, you know,
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forensics files or like sketchy like
houses where the crime happened or
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like, you know, like broken family
photos and things like that. It's like,
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it very much has like its own like voice
and very much like has made itself its
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own genre and the imagery really
is starting to go along with that.
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But now it's really starting to break
out and become a little bit more,
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cause at first they
literally look all the same.
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So now it's really starting to break
out and people are starting to look a
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little different start to, you know,
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their brands are becoming
a little bit stronger,
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the voices are becoming
a little bit stronger.
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So you can already start to see both where
people are looking the same and where
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they're starting to
look a little different.
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What are some of your like
favorite and some of the ones
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like trends that you
hate and, you know, I,
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I get in there and I see some of
the stuff that it is like, you know,
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immediately if you like it or
not. Sometimes it's unmemorable,
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sometimes you really like it and
then other times you're like,
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I will not listen to this
because this looks bad.
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. Yeah. And I have definitely
done that last one.. Yeah,
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I'm a very visual person. So like if,
if if I don't like what I'm looking at,
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then I'm gonna stop looking at it.
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And that usually means looking at
something else. Uh,. Yeah.
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But definitely some, some,
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I would say definitely some visual rules
is once again, going back to the text,
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making sure the text is taking
up enough space on the artwork.
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I like to say it needs to be at least
30% of what you see on that little box.
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And a good rule of that is
the, the rules of third,
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which comes from photography.
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So if you guys ever look at your phones
and you see those little lines when
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you're trying to take a picture
and like that little box,
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you'll see like these little,
you know, usually nine boxes.
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That is the rule of third.
And it's really about filling.
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Like if you even take a little piece
of paper, make a box, make, you know,
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nine boxes in that box using the
rule, you know, using thirds,
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your artwork should be taken up
at least three of those boxes.
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So either that's three in a row,
which is what we usually see.
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Usually a row in the
middle or a row at the top.
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A row at the bottom has actually doesn't
really follow Apple's new guidelines.
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So you're kind of gonna see
that starting to get phased out.
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But usually it's like title right in the
middle as big as possible or right at
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the top as big as possible, taking up
three of those kind of those boxes.
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So I would say that's probably the first
thing that will get you noticed because
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that's the first thing people are looking
for. They're looking for that title.
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A good,
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a great example of this is obviously our
podcast Insider because that was really
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the main thing of like making those,
those three boxes right in the middle,
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the text, um, some other
good typography ones,
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which is just like ones that really rely
on, you know, that text kind of thing.
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One that I really like is the
Real Housewives of Dungeons
and Dragons, which is,
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I was gonna say get ready for a lot
of nerdy podcasts because that's,
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that's where I fall in
as I've listened.
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So get ready for a lot of these
references. So yeah, the Real,
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the Real Housewives of Dungeons
and Dragons is obviously
a spin off of the Real
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Housewives, but not these Real Housewives.
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Were in a fantasy world and they
pretty much just use not an exact exact
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branding compared to the Real Housewives,
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but they just have like the Real
Housewives of Dungeon and Dragons, uh,
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at the bottom. And then all of the, uh,
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all the different characters kind
of like posing at the top. So again,
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that's just like a really instant way
to be like, oh, this is Real Housewives,
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people who know Real Housewives
know this kind of format,
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know this kind of pattern. And you know,
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they see the different cast members like
all posing in a very similar way that
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you would see on the show.
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And that actually gets into
one of my visual prot tips,
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which is to mimic the reference.
So if your show is about, um,
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you know,
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if it's about Real Housewives and like
mimic what Real Housewives does for their
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visuals, or if it's about like sports,
like obviously have like, you know,
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maybe the sports teams insignias or like
something that represents the sports
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teams. Uh, obviously when you go
to, uh, a lot of like fan casts,
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so like when you see stuff about like
different shows or bit like that,
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they'll usually match the look and
feel of the show like a South Park
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reenactment or like a, um,
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when you look into like Seinfeld or like
these other like old school shows that
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people do like these recap shows,
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they'll usually use their image again
not to copy because that is plagiarizing,
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don't do that,
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but matching the look tone and feel and
maybe like the shapes that you would
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normally see incorporated with this, uh,
208
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reference to use that to
mimic into your podcasting.
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I feel like Real Housewives is
a perfect example of, I mean,
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just saying the name
is a perfect example of, uh,
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using that reference to, you know,
boost the attention to your show.
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That does get into one of the things
that I had on the don't list as
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well. It's absolutely used
that used that reference.
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The, you know,
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the reason behind the show as part
of it because people are are going to
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understand it and it is, you know,
217
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potentially in within like fair use,
218
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but overall a lot of the time if people
are copying it because they just like
219
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the way that it looks, that's
gonna get you into legal problems.
220
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,300
Uh, so we always recommend that you
stay away from explicit content,
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other intellectual property,
branding, anything like that.
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And if you are going to go that route,
make sure that you're in the clear,
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know what you're doing.
224
00:12:55,490 --> 00:12:58,620
Yeah. And that's a good, uh,
point for, cause I know, uh,
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one of the things we were gonna
talk about was just like, make sure,
226
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like show it to someone else. Yeah.
227
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Like make sure you get
like a second opinion.
228
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Make sure you get some feedback
because they might be like, oh,
229
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this looks a lot like X, Y, Z and
you don't even know X, Y, Z existed.
230
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And you're like, oh, well,
can't do that now..
231
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Yeah, you,
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you wanna make sure that you're not
setting yourself down a bad road already.
233
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.
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If I could give you one piece of advice,
the more eyes the better.
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I fully agree with that.
236
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And then I see people in podcast
Facebook groups who will give you,
237
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you know, their top four
selections and people will,
238
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will give their opinions and
vote and say, you know, like,
239
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I like B or I like number three or
something like that. And you have to,
240
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if you're going to ask
for feedback like that,
241
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you have to take it and
you have to, you know,
242
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be confident in your decision as well.
This is your show. You've done the work,
243
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you've done the research,
244
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you know what will come across the best
and you just have to be confident in
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your own decision.
246
00:13:57,700 --> 00:14:01,020
That's one of the things that we also
recommend to do beforehand is like,
247
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you have probably done,
whether you realize it or not,
248
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with this fun phrase, like, you know,
249
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what your listener persona is
to some extent. And that is,
250
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who do you think is gonna
be listening to this? Like,
251
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or if you're changing
your artwork right now,
252
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who is listening to it and why
are you changing this? And like,
253
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what do you think is gonna
be the best for the show?
254
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So as long as you're doing this
creatively and willing to take
255
00:14:30,330 --> 00:14:33,060
that criticism or you
know, even the compliments,
256
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like that's gonna lead you on a good path.
257
00:14:36,410 --> 00:14:40,060
Yeah. I actually, I have a good
example of this, which is, um, again,
258
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another d and d show. So this one, uh,
is called not another d and d podcast.
259
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,860
Uh, you know, again, very
much coined from, you know,
260
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not another teen movie or not another
kind of this movie that we used to see way
261
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back in the nineties. And they pretty
much, they're a d and d podcast,
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but they do like a bunch of different
seasons. And so to change the artwork,
263
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,360
they'll usually like change
like the emblems of the,
264
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that usually represents the
character. So like one year,
265
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one time it was a mushroom and then
they change it to like a little moon,
266
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then to change it, you know,
just these cute little icons.
267
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And then they changed the background,
but they left the name the exact same,
268
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the design, the exact same, they would
just make like these little updates.
269
00:15:18,260 --> 00:15:21,440
But because of that background change
you could tell immediately like, oh,
270
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this is a new season,
this is a new campaign,
271
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this is a new version
of this show. And, uh,
272
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what I like about that is that it's easy
to update, which is like a huge, huge,
273
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huge, huge thing that
I've noticed is like make,
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when you start to think about
podcast artwork, it's like, okay,
275
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well if you're gonna have a
season one, then like any, any,
276
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anyone with a goal, the goal is, you know,
277
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to make it to a season two or like
a season three. So it's like, okay,
278
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well how would I change up the way I
look, the way I talk, the way I feel?
279
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Um, when it starts to get
into these new seasons,
280
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which is usually something we don't
see people think about until their,
281
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you know,
282
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first show or their first show starts to
get to like a lot of listens or like a
283
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lot of different, um, feedback again,
like a lot of different opinions.
284
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And then you start to really
realize what the show is about.
285
00:16:07,420 --> 00:16:11,040
And so season two is a great time
to again, change the artwork,
286
00:16:11,060 --> 00:16:15,280
but obviously keep it something the same
so that it's just like easy and very
287
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flexible to update.
288
00:16:17,260 --> 00:16:21,560
That's a really good point because
it's really easy to get overwhelmed
289
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mm-hmm.
hyperfocused on just this.
290
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And you have to keep the
iterations open for the future as
291
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well.
292
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It's one of the things that we tell
people to do is people will judge it.
293
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So if you don't want, like,
294
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you have to keep it open for whoever
you want the future audience to be
295
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as well.
296
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:48,240
Yeah. And like for my, for my
example, a non RDD podcast,
297
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theirs is a very like typographic,
298
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like very fancy made by a designer
who is a very good designer. Um,
299
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so if you don't have, you know, a very
good designer in your back pocket, uh,
300
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another great way to kind of keep that,
301
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keep it the same but keep it flexible
that we see a lot with like business
302
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professionals, industry
expert, public figures,
303
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things like that is they just do like a
new headshot or like a new portrait cuz
304
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like, you know, there's, they're,
they're very face forward.
305
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,240
I know Mike said like he,
um, has a face for radio,
306
00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:21,160
but for the people who have
like a face for tv, you know,
307
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:22,280
they're constantly getting head shots,
308
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,320
they're constantly getting
new photos taken of them.
309
00:17:24,620 --> 00:17:29,480
So it's just so easy to just slap a new
photo on your podcast artwork and call
310
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it, you know, new season.
And a person who does this,
311
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:35,280
probably to the extent
of anyone else is, um,
312
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,240
Michelle Obama because she has so
many different podcasts going on,
313
00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:40,920
so many different seasons,
314
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,640
a whole network and pretty much
the whole network is just her face.
315
00:17:44,860 --> 00:17:49,360
So it's just a new face, new headshot,
new photo, new season art, new tv,
316
00:17:49,540 --> 00:17:52,800
you know, and like when she guests
on different, uh, podcasts, you know,
317
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,920
she has a new portrait
for that. So, you know,
318
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,200
if you're someone like that
who is constantly getting,
you know, new headshots,
319
00:17:58,340 --> 00:18:00,160
you know, you're very face forward.
320
00:18:00,180 --> 00:18:04,160
You want people to know who you are and
recognize you immediately or know that
321
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,560
like this advice, this, you know,
322
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,360
professional opinion is coming from you
specifically, like you are the brand.
323
00:18:11,910 --> 00:18:12,800
Then just, you know,
324
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,680
swapping out a new headshot I see is like
another easy way to update every year
325
00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:19,160
as you start to get these headshots taken.
326
00:18:20,030 --> 00:18:24,280
That moves into, you can do
podcast episode artwork as well.
327
00:18:24,860 --> 00:18:29,680
And a lot of people that do that
will use a template and just swap
328
00:18:29,740 --> 00:18:34,040
out whatever Photoshop or whatever,
you know, stock image that they have.
329
00:18:34,420 --> 00:18:37,840
That's a great example of you
like using those headshots,
330
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,360
especially if you're doing, you know,
331
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:43,360
like a more business professional show
and you have a guest every time and
332
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:44,193
you're like, okay,
333
00:18:44,550 --> 00:18:48,080
send us your headshot so that we
can swap it in for this episode.
334
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:52,480
Specific artwork, like the show
artwork overall is not changing,
335
00:18:52,620 --> 00:18:57,160
but you can have episode specific
and so it can be really cool and fun
336
00:18:57,500 --> 00:19:00,280
and you know, if you're
the creative yourself,
337
00:19:00,670 --> 00:19:04,600
it's probably a really cool thing to
do as part of the show. If you're not,
338
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,800
I would recommend probably having
someone on your team do that for you.
339
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:12,520
it's, it can be a lot
of work, but you know, it's,
340
00:19:12,670 --> 00:19:16,120
it's definitely not a requirement.
It can be something fun to do.
341
00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:21,040
It might be something you wanna do
like for a holiday or for like a series
342
00:19:21,220 --> 00:19:23,520
as part of your overall
podcast. You're like, okay,
343
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,240
well the next four episodes
are gonna be on this,
344
00:19:26,420 --> 00:19:29,920
so we're gonna use this for the,
like this one. It's, you know,
345
00:19:29,950 --> 00:19:31,880
it's just like a fun extra.
346
00:19:32,660 --> 00:19:37,560
Yes. And I, of course you have a perfect
example. So there is this,
347
00:19:37,580 --> 00:19:41,280
uh, music podcast called Dissects.
I think it's pretty popular now,
348
00:19:41,780 --> 00:19:46,440
but it's pretty much this guy
who will dissect like different
349
00:19:46,450 --> 00:19:50,840
songs or somehow he'll sometimes dissect
the entire album of like an artist.
350
00:19:51,460 --> 00:19:54,560
Um, some really popular ones that he's
done, I believe is like Mac Miller,
351
00:19:54,830 --> 00:19:57,480
he's done some Jay-Z, uh, Kendrick Lamar.
352
00:19:58,220 --> 00:20:02,960
And so he will change the
podcast to again mimic the
353
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,280
reference of the musician's
album artwork usually.
354
00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:09,480
So like I know from Mac Millers he
did like circles, anything like that,
355
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,080
like he'll match the look tone and
feel of that artist. But, you know, uh,
356
00:20:13,100 --> 00:20:14,920
an album is only, you know, 12 songs.
357
00:20:15,140 --> 00:20:18,280
So he's changing pretty much
every season is a new album.
358
00:20:18,340 --> 00:20:20,080
And so every season he's
changing the artwork,
359
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,360
but the typography stays exactly the
same and just the background imagery
360
00:20:25,030 --> 00:20:28,920
matches the look tone and feel of whatever
artist that he is dissecting at that
361
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:29,590
time.
362
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:30,960
Yeah, that's a perfect example.
363
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:32,560
Mm-hmm.. And then like,
364
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,000
he'll do special episodes where it's
just like one song or like he'll just do
365
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,040
the overall breath of the artist's work.
366
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,400
Like I think that's what he did for
Kendrick Lamar. Um, and that's where,
367
00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:45,440
you know, again, he's swapping
out these artworks in and out,
368
00:20:45,580 --> 00:20:49,160
but it gives him this
beautiful array of like, just,
369
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:52,360
if you just look at the artworks
altogether, it's just like, oh,
370
00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:56,960
you really get like a, a different vibe
with every single one. But you know,
371
00:20:56,980 --> 00:20:58,520
the topic is exactly the same.
372
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,620
What's your biggest do and what's your
biggest don't for podcast artwork?
373
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:10,660
Ooh.
374
00:21:10,660 --> 00:21:15,460
I mean definitely my biggest do is that
title and making sure that title is big.
375
00:21:15,460 --> 00:21:19,220
Make sure that title is readable
and make sure that title is tight.
376
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,420
And obviously making sure that title is
not clashing with the background or any
377
00:21:23,470 --> 00:21:26,620
other kind of bits and bobs
that you have on the artwork.
378
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,380
That's probably the biggest
do the biggest don't I have.
379
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:35,610
Hmm. Cause there's so many
380
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:39,290
is like just picking the biggest one.
381
00:21:39,790 --> 00:21:41,130
All right. I'll give you my,
382
00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:45,690
my biggest do yes is
probably the colors. Mm-hmm.
383
00:21:45,730 --> 00:21:50,330
I will respond
harshly to significant
384
00:21:51,130 --> 00:21:53,610
contrasting colors that are, you know,
385
00:21:54,030 --> 00:21:57,050
too dark or just too bright.
386
00:21:57,690 --> 00:22:02,250
I will immediately scroll past and like
not even get to the title if it looks
387
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:03,210
like it's too much.
388
00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:06,910
Yeah. I was gonna say, like, for me, like,
389
00:22:07,170 --> 00:22:08,510
and that's a good point
that you mentioned,
390
00:22:08,510 --> 00:22:11,350
like what would make me scroll past
something about even looking at it,
391
00:22:11,730 --> 00:22:15,270
it would probably be when it's
like just a little too generic.
392
00:22:15,610 --> 00:22:16,220
Mm-hmm..
393
00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:19,790
Like when you look at, um, again, if
you go back to the true Crimes thing,
394
00:22:19,790 --> 00:22:24,230
like there's so many and a lot of them
are starting to look a well for a while.
395
00:22:24,350 --> 00:22:26,230
A lot of 'em are looking exactly the same.
396
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:28,910
So I literally did not
even know where to start.
397
00:22:29,370 --> 00:22:33,390
And that's kind of why I liked these
gaming hobbies and kind of like those
398
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:36,910
podcasts artworks a little bit more
because it forces them to be unique and
399
00:22:36,910 --> 00:22:38,710
different. Cause they're like,
okay, well we're all gonna use dice,
400
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:39,110
or we're like,
401
00:22:39,110 --> 00:22:41,870
we're all gonna use like the same
thing as like a visual signifier.
402
00:22:42,210 --> 00:22:42,710
So it's like,
403
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:47,590
how do we take those visual
things that people recognize our
404
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:49,910
genre are like our topic four,
405
00:22:50,450 --> 00:22:54,110
but Twisted are move it are
move it around so that it,
406
00:22:54,450 --> 00:22:58,030
it matches our brand and it looks
different from everyone else's.
407
00:22:58,030 --> 00:22:58,710
And to your point,
408
00:22:58,710 --> 00:23:03,390
color is a great way to stand out a
little bit harder because pretty much what
409
00:23:03,390 --> 00:23:08,350
we did was we looked at our, uh, genre
that podcast Insiders in and we're like,
410
00:23:08,350 --> 00:23:12,470
okay, what color do we not see on this
page? And the answer was Orange.
411
00:23:12,590 --> 00:23:12,910
I.
412
00:23:12,910 --> 00:23:15,430
Remember, I remember that it was, uh,
413
00:23:15,940 --> 00:23:20,870
when we came out with Podcast Insider
a couple years ago and made our
414
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:21,590
new artwork,
415
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:25,950
it was very much following our blueberry
colors at the time with the dark blue
416
00:23:25,950 --> 00:23:29,550
and the light blue and a little
bit of green. And in this,
417
00:23:29,810 --> 00:23:32,310
you immediately went to directories
and you were like, Nope,
418
00:23:32,460 --> 00:23:36,230
this is what people are not using. So
that's what we're gonna use to stand out.
419
00:23:36,290 --> 00:23:41,270
Not using it in like bad way, but
just you, you took that opportunity.
420
00:23:41,540 --> 00:23:44,470
Yeah. And you know, to your point, like
back in the day when there, when you,
421
00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:46,880
when there was less, just
less podcasts around,
422
00:23:47,230 --> 00:23:50,480
like the podcast Insider one really
stood out because they match our colors,
423
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:51,720
it matched blueberry. It was great.
424
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:56,920
We immediately saw it being overfilled
with a lot of blues, a lot of dark blues,
425
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,560
a lot of light blues, a lot of white.
426
00:23:59,060 --> 00:24:01,880
And so like immediately like we could
see like, oh, we're getting lost.
427
00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:04,720
And if you think about,
you know, a magazine stand,
428
00:24:04,830 --> 00:24:09,520
like these companies pay a lot
of money to make sure that cover
429
00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:13,480
is as stand out as possible
from all the other covers.
430
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:16,440
So when you start to think about these
libraries and when you have just a little
431
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,360
square to work with, it's like, okay,
432
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:22,960
how do I stand out from the at least
three squares that are going to be next to
433
00:24:23,420 --> 00:24:24,060
my artwork,
434
00:24:24,060 --> 00:24:26,920
let alone the hundreds of squares that
they're gonna be scrolling through?
435
00:24:28,420 --> 00:24:31,040
You know, I'll, I'll give you some
time to think about your don't,
436
00:24:31,060 --> 00:24:35,320
but my biggest don't
is is when, um,
437
00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:40,280
it looks a little too word
art or clip art or like
438
00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:42,160
old and cliche.
439
00:24:42,780 --> 00:24:47,320
That's one of the things that I really
don't like is if the artwork is boring,
440
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,800
I assume the show is boring. If it
looks like you didn't put enough,
441
00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:55,360
if you did it yourself, but you're not
a creative and you didn't, you know,
442
00:24:56,270 --> 00:25:00,440
have someone assist you with
this or hire someone to do it,
443
00:25:00,580 --> 00:25:04,000
I'm going to assume that you were putting
in the same level of effort and care
444
00:25:04,030 --> 00:25:05,920
into your show. So I will just skip it.
445
00:25:07,230 --> 00:25:09,200
Yeah. And I think that
would probably be my, again,
446
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,120
that kind of goes along with my biggest
one of like, don't be too generic.
447
00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:16,400
Because it's like if you
are looking at, you know,
448
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,520
that blank square and you're like, okay,
449
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,080
let's throw a title on it and then like,
450
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,320
just throw whatever image
behind it that, you know,
451
00:25:23,550 --> 00:25:25,680
doesn't clash at the title
too much. It's like, okay,
452
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,880
well that's gonna be everyone's
first thought. So it's like,
453
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,440
so what would be your second thought
and what would be your third thought and
454
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,280
what would be your fourth thought? And
as you start to go down that rabbit hole,
455
00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:35,920
that's where you start to find
your uniqueness and be like, well,
456
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,120
this is what I like. And if it meets
all of these criteria, then like, boom,
457
00:25:40,180 --> 00:25:41,680
you got yourself a brand. You're.
458
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:42,430
Golden.
459
00:25:42,430 --> 00:25:43,263
Yeah.
460
00:25:43,340 --> 00:25:44,960
All right. Well we are, uh,
461
00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:49,680
we highly suggest that you take a look
at the accompanying blog post for this so
462
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,400
that you can actually see what we
are describing in detail. But, uh,
463
00:25:54,900 --> 00:25:58,120
any last tips or do's and don't
that you wanna give to the people?
464
00:25:58,860 --> 00:26:01,920
Uh, yeah, I mean, and uh, our last
conversation pretty much like a,
465
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,160
a good kicking off point of just
like, what is the brands, you know,
466
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:07,960
like what is it that
makes your show special?
467
00:26:08,140 --> 00:26:11,320
And that's not just an audio thing,
that's also a video thing. I mean,
468
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,160
not a visual, it's both an audio
and a visual, visual thing.
469
00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:17,640
And especially when you start to
get into video, it's like, okay,
470
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:21,280
how do I want my show to
look? How do I want it to,
471
00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:24,800
how do I want the tone to be like,
is this serious? Is this fun?
472
00:26:24,820 --> 00:26:28,920
Is this relaxed? And then like, how
do you want the listener to feel?
473
00:26:28,980 --> 00:26:32,280
And I think that's kind of like a big
point of like when someone looks at your
474
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,080
artwork, like how do you want them to
feel about your show? Like is it gritty?
475
00:26:36,380 --> 00:26:38,360
Is it supposed to be fun? Is
it supposed to be interesting?
476
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:39,400
Is it supposed to be exciting?
477
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:44,720
Like making sure you have some
kind of emotional trigger is
478
00:26:44,750 --> 00:26:49,720
what really makes the eye sit there and
look at it for like that second longer
479
00:26:49,900 --> 00:26:54,160
and then a second longer and then a
second longer. And so I would say making,
480
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,120
aligning that look with your tone
and then combining it with a feeling
481
00:26:59,630 --> 00:27:01,400
like that is how you make a brand.
482
00:27:01,580 --> 00:27:05,560
And then you can take that and
turn that into a visual audio,
483
00:27:06,460 --> 00:27:07,720
um, you know, wording,
484
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,520
things like that and bring it all
together into one like cohesive package.
485
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,040
I think that's a really great way to end
the show is just making sure that you
486
00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:21,800
are creating a memorable
brand for your podcast. Aaron,
487
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,160
thanks so much for joining us today.
488
00:27:23,580 --> 00:27:25,040
No problem. Thank you for having me.
489
00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:29,640
Thanks for joining us. Come back
next week and in the meantime,
490
00:27:29,710 --> 00:27:34,240
head to podcast insider.com for
more information to subscribe,
491
00:27:35,050 --> 00:27:36,720
share, and read our show notes.
492
00:27:37,380 --> 00:27:42,280
To check out our latest suite of services
and learn how blueberry can help you
493
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,720
leverage your podcast.
Visit blueberry.com.
494
00:27:46,020 --> 00:27:49,480
That's blueberry without the
ease. We couldn't afford the ease.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,400
People see the question, upload your
artwork, and it, they literally freeze.
2
00:00:03,470 --> 00:00:04,600
Like they're fully frozen.
3
00:00:05,140 --> 00:00:07,920
And don't sign up for their podcast
just cuz they don't have artwork.
4
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,920
And it's like, it should
never be that scary,
5
00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,400
that it literally stops you from creating.
6
00:00:15,380 --> 00:00:19,840
You're listening to Podcast Insider
hosted by Mike Dell, Todd Cochran,
7
00:00:20,020 --> 00:00:22,520
and Mackenzie Bennett
from the Blueberry team,
8
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,760
bringing you weekly insights, advice,
9
00:00:25,820 --> 00:00:28,760
and insider tips and
tricks to help you start,
10
00:00:29,270 --> 00:00:31,520
grow and thrive through podcasting.
11
00:00:32,150 --> 00:00:35,800
With all the support of your team
here at Blueberry Podcasting, welcome.
12
00:00:36,050 --> 00:00:36,883
Let's dive in.
13
00:00:37,740 --> 00:00:40,640
I'm Mackenzie Bennett, marketing
specialist here at Blueberry. And.
14
00:00:40,660 --> 00:00:42,520
I'm Erin Hope, graphic
designer at Blueberry.
15
00:00:42,690 --> 00:00:46,200
Today we've brought on our special
guest from the blueberry team.
16
00:00:46,620 --> 00:00:50,960
We brought Erin on because we'll be
discussing some dos and don'ts of podcast
17
00:00:51,110 --> 00:00:51,943
artwork.
18
00:00:52,740 --> 00:00:53,960
Baby's first official podcast.
19
00:00:55,020 --> 00:00:59,680
I'm so excited to get you on here.
You've been with us for three years now.
20
00:01:00,580 --> 00:01:04,280
Yes. And we've talked about this day
forever, so it's, it's finally happening.
21
00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,840
I know, I'm glad we are. It's,
uh, it's also something like,
22
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:12,320
this topic is something that
we've discussed wanting to
do for a very long time,
23
00:01:12,900 --> 00:01:16,520
but we've never really gone
into it that much because, well,
24
00:01:16,870 --> 00:01:18,480
none of us are graphic designers,
25
00:01:18,740 --> 00:01:23,240
so it felt like it was
appropriate to save it for someone
26
00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:24,073
worthwhile.
27
00:01:24,780 --> 00:01:25,613
Yes. And I,
28
00:01:25,740 --> 00:01:30,320
I'm very excited to share some some tips
and tricks because as a designer I like
29
00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:35,240
the internet to look better, uh,
30
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,520
that we see on these podcasts,
uh, dis distribution points. Yeah.
31
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,000
I wholeheartedly agree
with that idea as a whole.
32
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,200
I want the internet to look
better.
33
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:45,840
That's why I do what I do.
34
00:01:46,390 --> 00:01:47,760
Well, okay. That goes into,
35
00:01:48,140 --> 00:01:52,960
we get podcasters at events on the
phone and emails like any single
36
00:01:53,030 --> 00:01:56,880
time someone is starting a show, unless
they're like a designer themselves,
37
00:01:56,910 --> 00:02:00,200
they usually ask a ton of
questions about podcast artwork.
38
00:02:00,820 --> 00:02:04,720
And so with this, we'll have
a blog post that, you know,
39
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,640
kind of gives some examples that you
can visually look at. For example,
40
00:02:08,670 --> 00:02:13,040
like we've changed this podcast that
you're listening to right now many times
41
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,520
over the years. And each time we've
had a different artwork to go with it,
42
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,720
like we've maybe changed the name of the
show, the people behind the, you know,
43
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:26,080
behind the mic and just given
it a facelift and update,
44
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,480
whatever you wanna call it. And
the artwork changes every time.
45
00:02:28,540 --> 00:02:33,480
And most recently you helped us
with the latest iteration of Podcast
46
00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,280
Insiders. So what was
your experience with that?
47
00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:41,520
Um, it was definitely an experience cuz
it was my first time looking at podcast
48
00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,600
artworks from like that
designer perspective.
49
00:02:44,750 --> 00:02:48,480
Like from just like my critical
eye and just being like, okay,
50
00:02:48,590 --> 00:02:51,080
what are the trends?
What are the patterns?
51
00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,720
And then how can I bring that
into our artwork? So it was,
52
00:02:54,780 --> 00:02:57,720
it was definitely a fun
little challenge to do.
53
00:02:58,340 --> 00:03:02,080
And I definitely think we came to a
really good point where we have something
54
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,840
that stands out, but also something
that, you know, speaks to the category,
55
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,520
which is, you know, going inside podcasts.
56
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:14,520
So that's why I literally put insider
inside that soundbar inside the r s
57
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,720
s feed inside the audio
to show like we are,
58
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,760
that's how deep we're going in podcasts
like this. In episodes like this,
59
00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:21,880
which we're about to deep dive,
60
00:03:22,250 --> 00:03:24,400
we're literally deep diving
into podcast artwork right now.
61
00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:28,600
I really wanted to show that like you
are getting an insider's perspective
62
00:03:28,670 --> 00:03:33,000
because everyone on here has
experience in podcasting,
63
00:03:33,110 --> 00:03:35,360
whether as a listener or as a creator.
64
00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:40,920
And we're putting all of our experiences
together to give you, um, you know,
65
00:03:41,260 --> 00:03:44,200
expert tips in the very
small little sound wave file.
66
00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,040
I know, I really enjoy this one, uh,
because it's so, it looks so simple,
67
00:03:49,220 --> 00:03:53,040
but it's so detail
oriented as well. So, uh,
68
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,480
getting into some do's and don'ts. One
of the first ones that I had on here is,
69
00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:02,320
I don't get me wrong, I love the creative
perspective. However, real quick,
70
00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,040
people need to follow the minimum
requirements for podcast artwork,
71
00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,800
like the specs that are
required to create this.
72
00:04:10,140 --> 00:04:13,320
Cuz if you get that wrong, like you're
it, you're gonna have to redo it.
73
00:04:14,300 --> 00:04:18,160
Yep. And you know, we've even, I don't
know how much inside baseball we can say,
74
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,360
but like, we've even taken
that question off of our like,
75
00:04:22,820 --> 00:04:27,160
new sign ups for podcasters. Just
because people see the question,
76
00:04:27,460 --> 00:04:29,560
upload your artwork, and
it, they literally freeze.
77
00:04:29,590 --> 00:04:33,600
Like they're fully frozen and don't
sign up for their podcast just cuz they
78
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:34,800
don't have artwork. And it's like,
79
00:04:35,100 --> 00:04:40,000
it should never be that scary
that it literally stops you from
80
00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:45,280
creating. The best place to start is
to know the main general minimum rules,
81
00:04:45,370 --> 00:04:48,920
which, um, while Apple is not by
any means the king of podcast,
82
00:04:49,190 --> 00:04:52,960
they definitely have the strictest
rules when it comes to visuals.
83
00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,480
As we all know, apple is very
particular about their imagery. Um,
84
00:04:56,820 --> 00:05:00,520
so they are usually the the base
point that we use cuz it's like, okay,
85
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,120
if you can upload it and
meet Apple standards,
86
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,800
then you will meet the standards
pretty much anywhere else that you get
87
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:06,470
podcasts.
88
00:05:06,470 --> 00:05:08,280
Exactly. It's when you're following them,
89
00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:12,440
you're gonna be okay with
everyone else. So real quick, uh,
90
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,240
14 by 1400 or 3000 by 3000,
91
00:05:16,070 --> 00:05:18,600
that is the main one that
will trip some people up,
92
00:05:18,860 --> 00:05:22,200
but we'll have a link to those exact
specs that you should be following.
93
00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:27,400
So getting into the next one, I
like this bullet just because it's,
94
00:05:27,980 --> 00:05:30,440
let it breathe. Let your
podcast artwork breathe.
95
00:05:30,650 --> 00:05:35,560
Don't create something that is
too complicated because it's,
96
00:05:35,710 --> 00:05:37,760
it's not gonna get like, it's,
97
00:05:37,790 --> 00:05:40,880
it's due because podcast
artwork is too small.
98
00:05:41,980 --> 00:05:46,120
Yes. And that really brings up a
point that I'm sure we're gonna go in,
99
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,920
which is just like text size and text in
general and making sure that it is big
100
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,720
enough and in the right, you know,
101
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,320
in the right area on the artwork
in order to be seen immediately and
102
00:05:57,380 --> 00:06:00,480
pretty much read like
within one or two seconds.
103
00:06:01,470 --> 00:06:06,280
Yeah. That, yes, that part definitely
goes into some don'ts as well.
104
00:06:06,380 --> 00:06:08,640
You know, there's, there's
the ying and the yang here,
105
00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:13,080
and for as complicated as you
want it to be, it might be fun,
106
00:06:13,420 --> 00:06:15,840
but it, it has to be legible.
107
00:06:16,340 --> 00:06:21,320
So one of the things that I really like
to tell people to do as well is to go
108
00:06:21,350 --> 00:06:25,320
into podcast directories and take a
look at what is on there currently,
109
00:06:26,020 --> 00:06:30,960
see what the general vibe is as
of variety now because you know
110
00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:34,560
it in any creative medium,
111
00:06:35,100 --> 00:06:37,800
trends come and go here. And so, you know,
112
00:06:38,310 --> 00:06:42,720
sometimes you'll see a lot of these
different types of colors or the spot
113
00:06:43,140 --> 00:06:46,560
or, you know, the
layout. It's, it's a lot.
114
00:06:47,350 --> 00:06:51,200
Yeah. And I would, I would say the
perfect example for this is, um,
115
00:06:51,220 --> 00:06:54,320
to look at just any kind of, any, any,
116
00:06:54,620 --> 00:06:59,120
any directory with true crime in it.
Like, because True crime became like,
117
00:06:59,460 --> 00:07:00,293
you know,
118
00:07:00,410 --> 00:07:04,480
surge during the pandemic and just
became this huge platform for so many
119
00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:04,980
different people,
120
00:07:04,980 --> 00:07:09,800
so many diverse opinions and
shockingly so many real true crime
121
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:10,633
stories.
122
00:07:10,740 --> 00:07:15,120
And it has had many different alterations
as money has been thrown into the
123
00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,440
category, the designs have definitely
enhanced, definitely have changed.
124
00:07:18,780 --> 00:07:20,760
And if you just literally scroll down it,
125
00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,080
you can already start to see some
patterns, some different, you know,
126
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,440
what's different, what's the same,
A lot of red, a lot of black,
127
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,480
a lot of dark like gritty
imagery, usually like, you know,
128
00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:37,640
forensics files or like sketchy like
houses where the crime happened or
129
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,720
like, you know, like broken family
photos and things like that. It's like,
130
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,600
it very much has like its own like voice
and very much like has made itself its
131
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,480
own genre and the imagery really
is starting to go along with that.
132
00:07:50,500 --> 00:07:53,360
But now it's really starting to break
out and become a little bit more,
133
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,000
cause at first they
literally look all the same.
134
00:07:55,260 --> 00:07:58,400
So now it's really starting to break
out and people are starting to look a
135
00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:59,640
little different start to, you know,
136
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,280
their brands are becoming
a little bit stronger,
137
00:08:01,300 --> 00:08:02,880
the voices are becoming
a little bit stronger.
138
00:08:03,100 --> 00:08:07,320
So you can already start to see both where
people are looking the same and where
139
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:08,520
they're starting to
look a little different.
140
00:08:09,950 --> 00:08:14,720
What are some of your like
favorite and some of the ones
141
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,720
like trends that you
hate and, you know, I,
142
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,520
I get in there and I see some of
the stuff that it is like, you know,
143
00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,440
immediately if you like it or
not. Sometimes it's unmemorable,
144
00:08:24,630 --> 00:08:28,160
sometimes you really like it and
then other times you're like,
145
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,120
I will not listen to this
because this looks bad.
146
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:35,120
done that last one.
147
00:08:35,620 --> 00:08:39,240
I'm a very visual person. So like if,
if if I don't like what I'm looking at,
148
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:40,800
then I'm gonna stop looking at it.
149
00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:45,440
And that usually means looking at
something else. Uh,
150
00:08:45,460 --> 00:08:46,920
But definitely some, some,
151
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,360
I would say definitely some visual rules
is once again, going back to the text,
152
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making sure the text is taking
up enough space on the artwork.
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I like to say it needs to be at least
30% of what you see on that little box.
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And a good rule of that is
the, the rules of third,
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which comes from photography.
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So if you guys ever look at your phones
and you see those little lines when
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you're trying to take a picture
and like that little box,
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you'll see like these little,
you know, usually nine boxes.
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That is the rule of third.
And it's really about filling.
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Like if you even take a little piece
of paper, make a box, make, you know,
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nine boxes in that box using the
rule, you know, using thirds,
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your artwork should be taken up
at least three of those boxes.
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So either that's three in a row,
which is what we usually see.
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Usually a row in the
middle or a row at the top.
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A row at the bottom has actually doesn't
really follow Apple's new guidelines.
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So you're kind of gonna see
that starting to get phased out.
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But usually it's like title right in the
middle as big as possible or right at
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the top as big as possible, taking up
three of those kind of those boxes.
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So I would say that's probably the first
thing that will get you noticed because
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that's the first thing people are looking
for. They're looking for that title.
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A good,
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a great example of this is obviously our
podcast Insider because that was really
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the main thing of like making those,
those three boxes right in the middle,
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the text, um, some other
good typography ones,
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which is just like ones that really rely
on, you know, that text kind of thing.
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One that I really like is the
Real Housewives of Dungeons
and Dragons, which is,
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I was gonna say get ready for a lot
of nerdy podcasts because that's,
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that's where I fall in
as I've listened
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So get ready for a lot of these
references. So yeah, the Real,
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the Real Housewives of Dungeons
and Dragons is obviously
a spin off of the Real
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Housewives, but not these Real Housewives.
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Were in a fantasy world and they
pretty much just use not an exact exact
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branding compared to the Real Housewives,
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but they just have like the Real
Housewives of Dungeon and Dragons, uh,
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at the bottom. And then all of the, uh,
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all the different characters kind
of like posing at the top. So again,
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that's just like a really instant way
to be like, oh, this is Real Housewives,
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people who know Real Housewives
know this kind of format,
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know this kind of pattern. And you know,
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they see the different cast members like
all posing in a very similar way that
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you would see on the show.
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And that actually gets into
one of my visual prot tips,
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which is to mimic the reference.
So if your show is about, um,
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you know,
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if it's about Real Housewives and like
mimic what Real Housewives does for their
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visuals, or if it's about like sports,
like obviously have like, you know,
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maybe the sports teams insignias or like
something that represents the sports
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teams. Uh, obviously when you go
to, uh, a lot of like fan casts,
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so like when you see stuff about like
different shows or bit like that,
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they'll usually match the look and
feel of the show like a South Park
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reenactment or like a, um,
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when you look into like Seinfeld or like
these other like old school shows that
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people do like these recap shows,
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they'll usually use their image again
not to copy because that is plagiarizing,
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don't do that,
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but matching the look tone and feel and
maybe like the shapes that you would
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normally see incorporated with this, uh,
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reference to use that to
mimic into your podcasting.
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I feel like Real Housewives is
a perfect example of, I mean,
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just saying the name
is a perfect example of, uh,
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using that reference to, you know,
boost the attention to your show.
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That does get into one of the things
that I had on the don't list as
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well. It's absolutely used
that used that reference.
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The, you know,
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the reason behind the show as part
of it because people are are going to
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understand it and it is, you know,
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potentially in within like fair use,
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but overall a lot of the time if people
are copying it because they just like
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the way that it looks, that's
gonna get you into legal problems.
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Uh, so we always recommend that you
stay away from explicit content,
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other intellectual property,
branding, anything like that.
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And if you are going to go that route,
make sure that you're in the clear,
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know what you're doing
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Yeah. And that's a good, uh,
point for, cause I know, uh,
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one of the things we were gonna
talk about was just like, make sure,
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like show it to someone else. Yeah.
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Like make sure you get
like a second opinion.
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Make sure you get some feedback
because they might be like, oh,
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this looks a lot like X, Y, Z and
you don't even know X, Y, Z existed.
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And you're like, oh, well,
can't do that now.
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Yeah, you,
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you wanna make sure that you're not
setting yourself down a bad road already.
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If I could give you one piece of advice,
the more eyes the better
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I fully agree with that.
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And then I see people in podcast
Facebook groups who will give you,
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you know, their top four
selections and people will,
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will give their opinions and
vote and say, you know, like,
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I like B or I like number three or
something like that. And you have to,
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if you're going to ask
for feedback like that,
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you have to take it and
you have to, you know,
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be confident in your decision as well.
This is your show. You've done the work,
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you've done the research,
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you know what will come across the best
and you just have to be confident in
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your own decision.
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That's one of the things that we also
recommend to do beforehand is like,
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you have probably done,
whether you realize it or not,
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with this fun phrase, like, you know,
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what your listener persona is
to some extent. And that is,
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who do you think is gonna
be listening to this? Like,
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or if you're changing
your artwork right now,
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who is listening to it and why
are you changing this? And like,
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what do you think is gonna
be the best for the show?
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So as long as you're doing this
creatively and willing to take
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that criticism or you
know, even the compliments,
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like that's gonna lead you on a good path.
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Yeah. I actually, I have a good
example of this, which is, um, again,
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another d and d show. So this one, uh,
is called not another d and d podcast.
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Uh, you know, again, very
much coined from, you know,
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not another teen movie or not another
kind of this movie that we used to see way
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back in the nineties. And they pretty
much, they're a d and d podcast,
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but they do like a bunch of different
seasons. And so to change the artwork,
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they'll usually like change
like the emblems of the,
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that usually represents the
character. So like one year,
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one time it was a mushroom and then
they change it to like a little moon,
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then to change it, you know,
just these cute little icons.
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And then they changed the background,
but they left the name the exact same,
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the design, the exact same, they would
just make like these little updates.
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But because of that background change
you could tell immediately like, oh,
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this is a new season,
this is a new campaign,
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this is a new version
of this show. And, uh,
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what I like about that is that it's easy
to update, which is like a huge, huge,
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huge, huge thing that
I've noticed is like make,
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when you start to think about
podcast artwork, it's like, okay,
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well if you're gonna have a
season one, then like any, any,
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anyone with a goal, the goal is, you know,
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to make it to a season two or like
a season three. So it's like, okay,
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well how would I change up the way I
look, the way I talk, the way I feel?
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Um, when it starts to get
into these new seasons,
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which is usually something we don't
see people think about until their,
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you know,
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first show or their first show starts to
get to like a lot of listens or like a
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lot of different, um, feedback again,
like a lot of different opinions.
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And then you start to really
realize what the show is about.
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And so season two is a great time
to again, change the artwork,
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but obviously keep it something the same
so that it's just like easy and very
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flexible to update.
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That's a really good point because
it's really easy to get overwhelmed
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mm-hmm.
hyperfocused on just this.
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And you have to keep the
iterations open for the future as
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well.
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It's one of the things that we tell
people to do is people will judge it.
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So if you don't want, like,
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you have to keep it open for whoever
you want the future audience to be
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as well.
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Yeah. And like for my, for my
example, a non RDD podcast,
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theirs is a very like typographic,
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like very fancy made by a designer
who is a very good designer. Um,
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so if you don't have, you know, a very
good designer in your back pocket, uh,
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another great way to kind of keep that,
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keep it the same but keep it flexible
that we see a lot with like business
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professionals, industry
expert, public figures,
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things like that is they just do like a
new headshot or like a new portrait cuz
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like, you know, there's, they're,
they're very face forward.
305
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I know Mike said like he,
um, has a face for radio,
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00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:21,160
but for the people who have
like a face for tv, you know,
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they're constantly getting head shots,
308
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they're constantly getting
new photos taken of them.
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So it's just so easy to just slap a new
photo on your podcast artwork and call
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it, you know, new season.
And a person who does this,
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probably to the extent
of anyone else is, um,
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Michelle Obama because she has so
many different podcasts going on,
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so many different seasons,
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a whole network and pretty much
the whole network is just her face.
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So it's just a new face, new headshot,
new photo, new season art, new tv,
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00:17:49,540 --> 00:17:52,800
you know, and like when she guests
on different, uh, podcasts, you know,
317
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she has a new portrait
for that. So, you know,
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if you're someone like that
who is constantly getting,
you know, new headshots,
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you know, you're very face forward.
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You want people to know who you are and
recognize you immediately or know that
321
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like this advice, this, you know,
322
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professional opinion is coming from you
specifically, like you are the brand.
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Then just, you know,
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swapping out a new headshot I see is like
another easy way to update every year
325
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as you start to get these headshots taken.
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That moves into, you can do
podcast episode artwork as well.
327
00:18:24,860 --> 00:18:29,680
And a lot of people that do that
will use a template and just swap
328
00:18:29,740 --> 00:18:34,040
out whatever Photoshop or whatever,
you know, stock image that they have.
329
00:18:34,420 --> 00:18:37,840
That's a great example of you
like using those headshots,
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especially if you're doing, you know,
331
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:43,360
like a more business professional show
and you have a guest every time and
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you're like, okay,
333
00:18:44,550 --> 00:18:48,080
send us your headshot so that we
can swap it in for this episode.
334
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:52,480
Specific artwork, like the show
artwork overall is not changing,
335
00:18:52,620 --> 00:18:57,160
but you can have episode specific
and so it can be really cool and fun
336
00:18:57,500 --> 00:19:00,280
and you know, if you're
the creative yourself,
337
00:19:00,670 --> 00:19:04,600
it's probably a really cool thing to
do as part of the show. If you're not,
338
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I would recommend probably having
someone on your team do that for you.
339
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of work, but you know, it's,
340
00:19:12,670 --> 00:19:16,120
it's definitely not a requirement.
It can be something fun to do.
341
00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:21,040
It might be something you wanna do
like for a holiday or for like a series
342
00:19:21,220 --> 00:19:23,520
as part of your overall
podcast. You're like, okay,
343
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,240
well the next four episodes
are gonna be on this,
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00:19:26,420 --> 00:19:29,920
so we're gonna use this for the,
like this one. It's, you know,
345
00:19:29,950 --> 00:19:31,880
it's just like a fun extra.
346
00:19:32,660 --> 00:19:37,560
Yes. And I, of course you have a perfect
example
347
00:19:37,580 --> 00:19:41,280
uh, music podcast called Dissects.
I think it's pretty popular now,
348
00:19:41,780 --> 00:19:46,440
but it's pretty much this guy
who will dissect like different
349
00:19:46,450 --> 00:19:50,840
songs or somehow he'll sometimes dissect
the entire album of like an artist.
350
00:19:51,460 --> 00:19:54,560
Um, some really popular ones that he's
done, I believe is like Mac Miller,
351
00:19:54,830 --> 00:19:57,480
he's done some Jay-Z, uh, Kendrick Lamar.
352
00:19:58,220 --> 00:20:02,960
And so he will change the
podcast to again mimic the
353
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,280
reference of the musician's
album artwork usually.
354
00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:09,480
So like I know from Mac Millers he
did like circles, anything like that,
355
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,080
like he'll match the look tone and
feel of that artist. But, you know, uh,
356
00:20:13,100 --> 00:20:14,920
an album is only, you know, 12 songs.
357
00:20:15,140 --> 00:20:18,280
So he's changing pretty much
every season is a new album.
358
00:20:18,340 --> 00:20:20,080
And so every season he's
changing the artwork,
359
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,360
but the typography stays exactly the
same and just the background imagery
360
00:20:25,030 --> 00:20:28,920
matches the look tone and feel of whatever
artist that he is dissecting at that
361
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:29,590
time.
362
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:30,960
Yeah, that's a perfect example.
363
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:32,560
Mm-hmm.
364
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,000
he'll do special episodes where it's
just like one song or like he'll just do
365
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,040
the overall breath of the artist's work.
366
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,400
Like I think that's what he did for
Kendrick Lamar. Um, and that's where,
367
00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:45,440
you know, again, he's swapping
out these artworks in and out,
368
00:20:45,580 --> 00:20:49,160
but it gives him this
beautiful array of like, just,
369
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:52,360
if you just look at the artworks
altogether, it's just like, oh,
370
00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:56,960
you really get like a, a different vibe
with every single one. But you know,
371
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the topic is exactly the same.
372
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,620
What's your biggest do and what's your
biggest don't for podcast artwork?
373
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:10,660
Ooh.
374
00:21:10,660 --> 00:21:15,460
I mean definitely my biggest do is that
title and making sure that title is big.
375
00:21:15,460 --> 00:21:19,220
Make sure that title is readable
and make sure that title is tight.
376
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,420
And obviously making sure that title is
not clashing with the background or any
377
00:21:23,470 --> 00:21:26,620
other kind of bits and bobs
that you have on the artwork.
378
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,380
That's probably the biggest
do the biggest don't I have.
379
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:35,610
Hmm. Cause there's so many
380
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:39,290
is like just picking the biggest one.
381
00:21:39,790 --> 00:21:41,130
All right. I'll give you my,
382
00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:45,690
my biggest do yes is
probably the colors. Mm-hmm.
383
00:21:45,730 --> 00:21:50,330
harshly to significant
384
00:21:51,130 --> 00:21:53,610
contrasting colors that are, you know,
385
00:21:54,030 --> 00:21:57,050
too dark or just too bright.
386
00:21:57,690 --> 00:22:02,250
I will immediately scroll past and like
not even get to the title if it looks
387
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:03,210
like it's too much.
388
00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:06,910
Yeah. I was gonna say, like, for me, like,
389
00:22:07,170 --> 00:22:08,510
and that's a good point
that you mentioned,
390
00:22:08,510 --> 00:22:11,350
like what would make me scroll past
something about even looking at it,
391
00:22:11,730 --> 00:22:15,270
it would probably be when it's
like just a little too generic.
392
00:22:15,610 --> 00:22:16,220
Mm-hmm.
393
00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:19,790
Like when you look at, um, again, if
you go back to the true Crimes thing,
394
00:22:19,790 --> 00:22:24,230
like there's so many and a lot of them
are starting to look a well for a while.
395
00:22:24,350 --> 00:22:26,230
A lot of 'em are looking exactly the same.
396
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:28,910
So I literally did not
even know where to start.
397
00:22:29,370 --> 00:22:33,390
And that's kind of why I liked these
gaming hobbies and kind of like those
398
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:36,910
podcasts artworks a little bit more
because it forces them to be unique and
399
00:22:36,910 --> 00:22:38,710
different. Cause they're like,
okay, well we're all gonna use dice,
400
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:39,110
or we're like,
401
00:22:39,110 --> 00:22:41,870
we're all gonna use like the same
thing as like a visual signifier.
402
00:22:42,210 --> 00:22:42,710
So it's like,
403
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:47,590
how do we take those visual
things that people recognize our
404
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:49,910
genre are like our topic four,
405
00:22:50,450 --> 00:22:54,110
but Twisted are move it are
move it around so that it,
406
00:22:54,450 --> 00:22:58,030
it matches our brand and it looks
different from everyone else's.
407
00:22:58,030 --> 00:22:58,710
And to your point,
408
00:22:58,710 --> 00:23:03,390
color is a great way to stand out a
little bit harder because pretty much what
409
00:23:03,390 --> 00:23:08,350
we did was we looked at our, uh, genre
that podcast Insiders in and we're like,
410
00:23:08,350 --> 00:23:12,470
okay, what color do we not see on this
page? And the answer was Orange
411
00:23:12,590 --> 00:23:12,910
I.
412
00:23:12,910 --> 00:23:15,430
Remember, I remember that it was, uh,
413
00:23:15,940 --> 00:23:20,870
when we came out with Podcast Insider
a couple years ago and made our
414
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:21,590
new artwork,
415
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:25,950
it was very much following our blueberry
colors at the time with the dark blue
416
00:23:25,950 --> 00:23:29,550
and the light blue and a little
bit of green. And in this,
417
00:23:29,810 --> 00:23:32,310
you immediately went to directories
and you were like, Nope,
418
00:23:32,460 --> 00:23:36,230
this is what people are not using. So
that's what we're gonna use to stand out.
419
00:23:36,290 --> 00:23:41,270
Not using it in like bad way, but
just you, you took that opportunity.
420
00:23:41,540 --> 00:23:44,470
Yeah. And you know, to your point, like
back in the day when there, when you,
421
00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:46,880
when there was less, just
less podcasts around,
422
00:23:47,230 --> 00:23:50,480
like the podcast Insider one really
stood out because they match our colors,
423
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:51,720
it matched blueberry. It was great.
424
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:56,920
We immediately saw it being overfilled
with a lot of blues, a lot of dark blues,
425
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,560
a lot of light blues, a lot of white.
426
00:23:59,060 --> 00:24:01,880
And so like immediately like we could
see like, oh, we're getting lost.
427
00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:04,720
And if you think about,
you know, a magazine stand,
428
00:24:04,830 --> 00:24:09,520
like these companies pay a lot
of money to make sure that cover
429
00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:13,480
is as stand out as possible
from all the other covers.
430
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:16,440
So when you start to think about these
libraries and when you have just a little
431
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,360
square to work with, it's like, okay,
432
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:22,960
how do I stand out from the at least
three squares that are going to be next to
433
00:24:23,420 --> 00:24:24,060
my artwork,
434
00:24:24,060 --> 00:24:26,920
let alone the hundreds of squares that
they're gonna be scrolling through?
435
00:24:28,420 --> 00:24:31,040
You know, I'll, I'll give you some
time to think about your don't,
436
00:24:31,060 --> 00:24:35,320
but my biggest don't
is
437
00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:40,280
it looks a little too word
art or clip art or like
438
00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:42,160
old and cliche.
439
00:24:42,780 --> 00:24:47,320
That's one of the things that I really
don't like is if the artwork is boring,
440
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,800
I assume the show is boring. If it
looks like you didn't put enough,
441
00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:55,360
if you did it yourself, but you're not
a creative and you didn't, you know,
442
00:24:56,270 --> 00:25:00,440
have someone assist you with
this or hire someone to do it,
443
00:25:00,580 --> 00:25:04,000
I'm going to assume that you were putting
in the same level of effort and care
444
00:25:04,030 --> 00:25:05,920
into your show. So I will just skip it.
445
00:25:07,230 --> 00:25:09,200
Yeah. And I think that
would probably be my, again,
446
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,120
that kind of goes along with my biggest
one of like, don't be too generic.
447
00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:16,400
Because it's like if you
are looking at, you know,
448
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,520
that blank square and you're like, okay,
449
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,080
let's throw a title on it and then like,
450
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,320
just throw whatever image
behind it that, you know,
451
00:25:23,550 --> 00:25:25,680
doesn't clash at the title
too much. It's like, okay,
452
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,880
well that's gonna be everyone's
first thought. So it's like,
453
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,440
so what would be your second thought
and what would be your third thought and
454
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,280
what would be your fourth thought? And
as you start to go down that rabbit hole,
455
00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:35,920
that's where you start to find
your uniqueness and be like, well,
456
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,120
this is what I like. And if it meets
all of these criteria, then like, boom,
457
00:25:40,180 --> 00:25:41,680
you got yourself a brand. You're.
458
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:42,430
Golden.
459
00:25:42,430 --> 00:25:43,263
Yeah.
460
00:25:43,340 --> 00:25:44,960
All right. Well we are, uh,
461
00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:49,680
we highly suggest that you take a look
at the accompanying blog post for this so
462
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,400
that you can actually see what we
are describing in detail. But, uh,
463
00:25:54,900 --> 00:25:58,120
any last tips or do's and don't
that you wanna give to the people?
464
00:25:58,860 --> 00:26:01,920
Uh, yeah, I mean, and uh, our last
conversation pretty much like a,
465
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,160
a good kicking off point of just
like, what is the brands, you know,
466
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:07,960
like what is it that
makes your show special?
467
00:26:08,140 --> 00:26:11,320
And that's not just an audio thing,
that's also a video thing. I mean,
468
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,160
not a visual, it's both an audio
and a visual, visual thing.
469
00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:17,640
And especially when you start to
get into video, it's like, okay,
470
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:21,280
how do I want my show to
look? How do I want it to,
471
00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:24,800
how do I want the tone to be like,
is this serious? Is this fun?
472
00:26:24,820 --> 00:26:28,920
Is this relaxed? And then like, how
do you want the listener to feel?
473
00:26:28,980 --> 00:26:32,280
And I think that's kind of like a big
point of like when someone looks at your
474
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,080
artwork, like how do you want them to
feel about your show? Like is it gritty?
475
00:26:36,380 --> 00:26:38,360
Is it supposed to be fun? Is
it supposed to be interesting?
476
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:39,400
Is it supposed to be exciting?
477
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:44,720
Like making sure you have some
kind of emotional trigger is
478
00:26:44,750 --> 00:26:49,720
what really makes the eye sit there and
look at it for like that second longer
479
00:26:49,900 --> 00:26:54,160
and then a second longer and then a
second longer. And so I would say making,
480
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,120
aligning that look with your tone
and then combining it with a feeling
481
00:26:59,630 --> 00:27:01,400
like that is how you make a brand.
482
00:27:01,580 --> 00:27:05,560
And then you can take that and
turn that into a visual audio,
483
00:27:06,460 --> 00:27:07,720
um, you know, wording,
484
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,520
things like that and bring it all
together into one like cohesive package.
485
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,040
I think that's a really great way to end
the show is just making sure that you
486
00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:21,800
are creating a memorable
brand for your podcast. Aaron,
487
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,160
thanks so much for joining us today.
488
00:27:23,580 --> 00:27:25,040
No problem. Thank you for having me.
489
00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:29,640
Thanks for joining us. Come back
next week and in the meantime,
490
00:27:29,710 --> 00:27:34,240
head to podcast insider.com for
more information to subscribe,
491
00:27:35,050 --> 00:27:36,720
share, and read our show notes.
492
00:27:37,380 --> 00:27:42,280
To check out our latest suite of services
and learn how blueberry can help you
493
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,720
leverage your podcast.
Visit blueberry.com.
494
00:27:46,020 --> 00:27:49,480
That's blueberry without the
ease. We couldn't afford the ease.