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Welcome back to Podcast Insider. I'm Mike Dell,

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the VP of customer relations here at Blueberry.

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And I'm Dave Clements from the support and

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media team. Today, we're gonna be talking about

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podcast monetization

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because because that is something that is always

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up for discussion no matter who you talk

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to, and there's a lot of misinformation surrounding

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it.

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Yeah. There are a ton there there is

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a ton of myths floating around about how

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podcasters make money,

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you know, kinda like you need to have

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a huge

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download

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stat or the sponsorship's the only way. But

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if you're not making money fast, you're doing

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something wrong, you know, stuff like that.

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Yeah. And today, we're gonna break down what

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exactly works for independent podcasters based on what

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we see every day in the space,

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and how to approach them in a way

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that makes sense for your show.

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You're listening to Podcast Insider hosted by Mike

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Dell, Dave Clements, and Mackenzie Bennett from the

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Blueberry team, bringing you weekly insights, advice, and

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insider tips and tricks to help you start,

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grow, and thrive through podcasting

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with all the support of your team here

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at Blueberry Podcasting.

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Welcome. Let's dive in. We'll start out with

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the myth number one here. You need huge

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downloads to make money,

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and that's not always the case.

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Yeah. It was kind of, like,

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when when when I first got into podcasting,

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that is

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the thing that was, like, never

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going to be achievable to me. It was

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like, you need to have,

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you know, hundreds of thousands of

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downloads in order to

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make money from it. And,

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that's actually changed quite a bit.

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And, you know, we'll talk a little bit

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about,

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programmatic advertising because that's kind of a good

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way to

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get started now in in

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making money with your podcast,

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because you can put ads in front of

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your episodes,

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and you can do that from day one.

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And, sure, you may not make a ton

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of money if you don't have a ton

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of downloads,

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but there can be some revenue

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there.

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Oh, yeah. For sure. And and, you know,

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basically,

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you know, it depends on your audience. It

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depends on how focused they are. And, again,

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this is, you know, just talking about advertising.

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There's other ways of making money that we'll

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talk about.

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But,

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you know, like,

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I know of a particular

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aviation podcast. They do not take ads. They

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do not do anything of that sort.

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But what they do do is they have

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a value for value model,

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which, you know, it's like Patreon or I

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think they use Simplecast

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or not Simplecast. I forget what it's called,

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but it's a competitor to Patreon.

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And

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people support them because they like the content,

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and they like the content without the advertising.

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But,

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you know, as as, is written in our

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notes here, a focused audience of 500 loyal

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listeners

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can be more

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valuable than 5,000

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passive ones.

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You know, kinda what works is,

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you know, being in a niche that,

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you know, you're one of few that are

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are doing the type of content that you're

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doing,

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you know,

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audience that trusts you. And,

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you know, it just

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you gotta

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build the audience, and it doesn't have to

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be huge. You just have to build it

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in such a way that they trust you

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or they wanna support you or you know,

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there's lots of different ways of doing it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. I guess, you know, we could move

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on to our second myth, which is that

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sponsorships are the only way to monetize. We've

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already talked about two of them. Yeah. Exactly.

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And, you know, I think a lot of

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what we see in podcasting,

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just because of the way that content is

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consumed, I think a lot of us kind

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of get the idea,

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about sponsorships

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through,

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YouTube, honestly.

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You know, we we I know Mike and

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I watch a fair amount of YouTube between

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the two of us. My main television.

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Yeah. And we're always seeing, you know, like,

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in video ads by those creators that are

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like, you know, this episode is sponsored by

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so and so. Here's the ad for it.

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And so I think that we kind of

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bring that into

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what we assume

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monetization is within podcasts.

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But,

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you you could do sponsorships where you actually

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work with a company directly.

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You can also do programmatic advertising, which is

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not

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sponsorship led.

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But, again,

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more ads for someone else's product.

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But

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one of my favorite ones is that value

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for value or listener supported

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model.

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So you could do memberships,

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donations,

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premium content like Patreon. That's actually how,

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we did

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the D and D podcast I was doing.

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We we started a Patreon where we gave

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unedited,

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sessions. So it'd be, you know, these two,

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three, four hour long audio files, and people

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loved them. So, you know, we started that

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at, like, a dollar. And then we would

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upgrade and do some other perks for, like,

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5 or $10.

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And that you know, our diehard fans, they

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enjoyed it. And it was actually pretty successful,

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you know, by our measurement.

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Yeah. And some of these

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imagine listening to five hour. But, you know,

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people will Oh, yeah. Do things. You know?

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Well, think of you like Twitch. You know?

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A lot of the successful creators on Twitch

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are playing video games for hours.

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Yeah. And then, hey. You know, there there's

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a there's generally you know, as as we

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used to say, there's a butt for every

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seat.

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Yeah. You know, somebody's gonna like it.

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Of course. And that that was a a

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big surprise to us because,

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you know, we were like,

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well, we already have the raw audio, and

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it gets assembled,

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you know, after we record.

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What if we gave that out? Would be

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would people be interested in that? So we

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gave that out at, like, $1. And,

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I was actually really surprised at how many

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people were like, yes. For a dollar a

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month, I would love to have these unedited,

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episodes where you got the goofs and you

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got to see some of the behind the

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scenes stuff. And

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people really, really like that.

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Right. Yeah. A couple other ways listed, and

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there's other ones besides these as well. But,

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affiliate marketing,

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you know, I've I've seen that work really

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well for some,

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you know, some people. There's podcasts about podcasting,

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which was a big while back. I don't

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know if it's a big thing now. Yeah.

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Of course, we're doing one. Right?

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Right. Right.

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But, you know, we could say, hey. You

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know, buy this microphone and, you know, have

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an affiliate link to the microphone at b

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and h or something and, you know, maybe

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make a little money doing that.

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You know, that kind of affiliate marketing. You

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know, selling our own services,

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or selling your own services.

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Now go ahead and talk about that one

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too. Sorry.

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No. I was gonna actually add on to

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the affiliate marketing just to kind of plug

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something that, as Blueberry customers, you may not

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be aware of. So we have a partnership

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with CodeADX,

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and that's what they do is,

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you can go through their platform

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and sign up for affiliate

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Mhmm. Codes and things like that for services

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that you use

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or or things like that. I just did

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that recently

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just as we were testing it out again,

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after talking to the guy that runs Code

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ADX,

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at Podfest.

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Yeah. So Yeah. That's a that you know,

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that's a pretty underutilized.

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We we are, working on reorganizing

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things so that you guys can find that

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stuff.

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So but, yeah, that's, that's underutilized,

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and, we'll we'll try to market that a

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little better because that's a great way to

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do it. You know, if you've got 30

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people listening to you every episode,

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but they're all really interested in a particular

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subject and you find a product that really

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fits that subject,

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you might do pretty good with that. You

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never know. But, you know,

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another one is selling your own services.

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You know, so if you're doing, you know,

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your coaching, consulting, speaking, in our case, selling

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podcast hosting,

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you know, promote your own stuff.

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That's another way of making money from a

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podcast.

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Go ahead.

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Yeah. Sorry.

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Yeah. Something else that, we see people do,

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especially when they,

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you know, get into like, if you're a

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coach.

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I know Mike talked about selling your own

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services.

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And even if it's not those one on

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one things, you could do, like, paid courses

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or digital products like PDFs.

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Some of those are pretty low weight.

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Yeah.

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So they're, like, they're easy lifts. You know,

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you can have those things and,

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you know, either it's like, hey. For a

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dollar, you can download PDF or you can

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give it away for free, and that ties

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into something else.

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So that's something to consider.

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And then finally,

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events and community access.

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If you are

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again, I think this ties more into coaching,

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but there are

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there are creators who will do live shows

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because their shows

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are bigger.

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And,

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they'll they'll have, like, a you know, maybe

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it's at Gen Con or at Podfest or

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something like that. They'll have, like, some kind

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of, like, paid event that you can go

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to, hang out with

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that podcaster or whatever.

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I'm sorry. I keep going back to this

274
00:10:21,850 --> 00:10:25,370
aviation show, but, they do two different things.

275
00:10:25,370 --> 00:10:27,149
They do a fly in every year.

276
00:10:28,134 --> 00:10:30,794
Yeah. And they pick an airport somewhere centrally

277
00:10:30,855 --> 00:10:34,534
located, and, they encourage their listeners to fly

278
00:10:34,534 --> 00:10:35,034
in,

279
00:10:35,815 --> 00:10:37,595
or drive in or whatever.

280
00:10:38,455 --> 00:10:41,095
And, you know, it's not a necessarily huge

281
00:10:41,095 --> 00:10:42,294
moneymaker, but,

282
00:10:42,695 --> 00:10:44,509
you know, there is some money to be

283
00:10:44,509 --> 00:10:46,029
made with those kind of events.

284
00:10:46,829 --> 00:10:47,730
Danny Pena,

285
00:10:48,269 --> 00:10:50,029
I forget what his show he's a hall

286
00:10:50,029 --> 00:10:51,549
of famer, but I forget what his show's

287
00:10:51,549 --> 00:10:54,669
about. But it's most electronic stuff, and and

288
00:10:54,669 --> 00:10:56,669
he puts on live events all over the

289
00:10:56,669 --> 00:10:58,929
place and, you know, to come to those.

290
00:10:59,524 --> 00:11:01,524
And Yeah. He does a pretty good job

291
00:11:01,524 --> 00:11:02,184
with it.

292
00:11:03,684 --> 00:11:05,365
Yeah. And I think a big takeaway for

293
00:11:05,365 --> 00:11:07,524
this as well, I mean, really, just for

294
00:11:07,524 --> 00:11:08,504
this entire

295
00:11:08,884 --> 00:11:09,945
concept of monetization,

296
00:11:10,725 --> 00:11:11,225
is

297
00:11:11,605 --> 00:11:13,945
not to really get stuck in one

298
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:15,059
type

299
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:16,100
of income.

300
00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:19,059
You know, maybe you do the

301
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,399
the listener supported stuff, but then maybe you

302
00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:22,899
also

303
00:11:23,279 --> 00:11:25,040
give away a course or a digital product

304
00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:26,340
or something like that,

305
00:11:27,634 --> 00:11:29,955
because it gives your audience options. And people

306
00:11:29,955 --> 00:11:32,115
that wanna support you maybe, you know, maybe

307
00:11:32,115 --> 00:11:34,134
they're not interested in the four hour

308
00:11:34,595 --> 00:11:36,534
unedited version of your podcast,

309
00:11:36,995 --> 00:11:37,495
but

310
00:11:37,955 --> 00:11:40,779
they might be interested in, hey. Here's this

311
00:11:40,779 --> 00:11:43,740
little ebook or something that I wrote. It's

312
00:11:43,740 --> 00:11:44,639
a short story.

313
00:11:45,500 --> 00:11:47,279
Here you go. It's $2.

314
00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:48,399
You know?

315
00:11:48,779 --> 00:11:51,100
Yep. And, well, let's go on a myth

316
00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:53,120
number three here on our list.

317
00:11:54,404 --> 00:11:54,904
Monetization

318
00:11:55,524 --> 00:11:56,904
should happen immediately.

319
00:11:57,845 --> 00:11:58,585
Oh, man.

320
00:12:00,004 --> 00:12:02,644
That one that one, you know, it's kinda

321
00:12:02,644 --> 00:12:04,184
sad. You know, when we've had,

322
00:12:04,725 --> 00:12:06,585
you know, downturns in the economy,

323
00:12:07,169 --> 00:12:09,009
I'll get somebody and say, hey. I need

324
00:12:09,009 --> 00:12:10,929
to you know, I lost my podcast. Well,

325
00:12:10,929 --> 00:12:12,549
it's not the time to start your podcast

326
00:12:13,009 --> 00:12:13,509
because,

327
00:12:14,289 --> 00:12:16,610
you know, you're not going to make money

328
00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:19,570
immediately, generally. I mean, not that not that

329
00:12:19,570 --> 00:12:20,549
it couldn't happen.

330
00:12:21,009 --> 00:12:22,389
Right. It's highly unlikely.

331
00:12:23,225 --> 00:12:25,384
Yeah. The odds aren't necessarily in your favor,

332
00:12:25,384 --> 00:12:27,644
but you could you could, you know,

333
00:12:28,665 --> 00:12:29,884
subvert those odds.

334
00:12:30,504 --> 00:12:32,665
Yeah. Yeah. You know? And the thing is

335
00:12:32,665 --> 00:12:33,804
is most people,

336
00:12:34,264 --> 00:12:35,085
most podcasters,

337
00:12:35,625 --> 00:12:38,360
and, you know, there are outliers and exceptions

338
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:39,960
to this, are not gonna get paid to

339
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:41,100
talk into the microphone.

340
00:12:41,879 --> 00:12:43,879
That's that's not what you're getting paid for.

341
00:12:43,879 --> 00:12:46,440
You're gonna get paid for marketing something to

342
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,740
your audience or selling something to your audience,

343
00:12:51,065 --> 00:12:52,845
you know, that kind of thing

344
00:12:53,544 --> 00:12:55,865
rather than, you know, I'm just getting paid

345
00:12:55,865 --> 00:12:57,084
to talk into the microphone.

346
00:12:57,464 --> 00:12:59,304
Ironically, Dave and I are getting paid to

347
00:12:59,304 --> 00:13:01,464
talk into the microphone, but that's not Yeah.

348
00:13:01,464 --> 00:13:03,565
This isn't all we do, though. Like No.

349
00:13:03,625 --> 00:13:05,220
No. No. No. No. By the long shot,

350
00:13:05,459 --> 00:13:06,899
This is a But but I think side

351
00:13:06,899 --> 00:13:07,399
gig.

352
00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:10,259
Yeah. This is almost like a perk of

353
00:13:10,259 --> 00:13:12,659
the job is being able to, you know,

354
00:13:12,659 --> 00:13:15,860
regularly do a podcast. Right. But I think

355
00:13:15,860 --> 00:13:17,480
I think where this myth

356
00:13:19,154 --> 00:13:20,674
I I wish we could just get rid

357
00:13:20,674 --> 00:13:21,815
of it because

358
00:13:22,274 --> 00:13:24,274
you have the the, like, you know, your

359
00:13:24,274 --> 00:13:26,454
holy trinity of things you need to do

360
00:13:26,834 --> 00:13:30,115
to really get the monetization train going, which

361
00:13:30,115 --> 00:13:31,495
is consistent publishing,

362
00:13:31,870 --> 00:13:34,690
having a clear message, and then having

363
00:13:34,990 --> 00:13:38,830
good audience feedback and engagement. Not positive, but

364
00:13:38,830 --> 00:13:40,129
also not fully negative,

365
00:13:40,910 --> 00:13:43,009
because you have to build that value first,

366
00:13:43,070 --> 00:13:44,990
and then the money comes in. And I

367
00:13:44,990 --> 00:13:45,490
think,

368
00:13:46,725 --> 00:13:47,304
I think

369
00:13:47,684 --> 00:13:49,845
it's kind of the the age that we're

370
00:13:49,845 --> 00:13:51,445
in is we're like, well, how can I

371
00:13:51,445 --> 00:13:52,904
make money the fastest?

372
00:13:53,605 --> 00:13:55,704
And we don't wanna put in the work.

373
00:13:56,245 --> 00:13:56,745
And,

374
00:13:57,605 --> 00:13:59,590
Yeah. It's a Put in the work. Yeah.

375
00:13:59,590 --> 00:14:01,509
It's a it's a slog. I mean, you

376
00:14:01,509 --> 00:14:03,049
know, building an audience

377
00:14:03,429 --> 00:14:05,769
just by itself without worrying about money

378
00:14:06,309 --> 00:14:07,529
Yeah. Is hard.

379
00:14:08,070 --> 00:14:10,409
You know, you're you you know,

380
00:14:11,029 --> 00:14:12,649
the competition isn't as

381
00:14:13,125 --> 00:14:14,585
fierce as you might think,

382
00:14:15,205 --> 00:14:15,705
because,

383
00:14:16,085 --> 00:14:16,745
you know,

384
00:14:17,605 --> 00:14:19,365
you know, like, I I watch a lot

385
00:14:19,365 --> 00:14:21,125
of car YouTube, you know, a lot of

386
00:14:21,125 --> 00:14:22,825
YouTubers that talk about cars.

387
00:14:23,524 --> 00:14:25,764
But guess what? If I wanted to start

388
00:14:25,764 --> 00:14:27,625
a YouTube channel about cars

389
00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:30,500
and a podcast works the same way,

390
00:14:31,919 --> 00:14:33,539
Yeah. There's a lot of competition,

391
00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:36,500
but nobody does it like you do it.

392
00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:40,259
Yeah. And some people will really gravitate

393
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:41,379
to you

394
00:14:42,014 --> 00:14:42,514
versus

395
00:14:42,975 --> 00:14:45,634
some other host. So, you know, it is

396
00:14:46,415 --> 00:14:48,575
about the the work you put in. You

397
00:14:48,575 --> 00:14:49,875
know? You put in,

398
00:14:50,254 --> 00:14:52,115
you know, decent audio,

399
00:14:52,654 --> 00:14:56,179
consistent publishing. You know? Be be clear

400
00:14:56,559 --> 00:14:58,899
about what you're talking about, and

401
00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:00,500
that usually works

402
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,179
over time. Yeah. Yeah. I was on Reddit

403
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,495
the other day. So if you're ever on

404
00:15:08,495 --> 00:15:10,254
Reddit and you have a question in, like,

405
00:15:10,254 --> 00:15:13,455
the podcasting subreddit, there are chances that you

406
00:15:13,455 --> 00:15:15,375
will get some kind of comment from me

407
00:15:15,375 --> 00:15:18,014
or Mike or Barry or someone on the

408
00:15:18,014 --> 00:15:18,514
team,

409
00:15:19,134 --> 00:15:20,514
because we're doing that now.

410
00:15:20,829 --> 00:15:23,070
And I had somebody ask, well, how do

411
00:15:23,070 --> 00:15:25,009
I how do I get this listener engagement?

412
00:15:25,070 --> 00:15:27,549
And they hadn't even recorded their first episode

413
00:15:27,549 --> 00:15:28,690
yet. And I was like,

414
00:15:31,549 --> 00:15:33,970
you gotta put the content out first

415
00:15:35,345 --> 00:15:37,504
because nobody wants to give you anything back

416
00:15:37,504 --> 00:15:38,804
until you've earned it.

417
00:15:39,184 --> 00:15:41,105
Yeah. It's you know, there's a lot of

418
00:15:41,105 --> 00:15:43,365
things in podcasting that have to,

419
00:15:44,144 --> 00:15:47,044
you have to actually have a podcast before

420
00:15:47,899 --> 00:15:50,299
doing some of these things. Right. You know?

421
00:15:50,299 --> 00:15:52,700
And then, you know, making any sort of

422
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:54,779
money from it is is one of them.

423
00:15:54,779 --> 00:15:56,460
And and, yeah, on top of that, you

424
00:15:56,460 --> 00:15:57,600
have to have the audience

425
00:15:58,220 --> 00:15:58,720
already

426
00:15:59,179 --> 00:16:01,519
Yeah. You know, for the most part.

427
00:16:02,725 --> 00:16:04,644
It's another myth. I I hear this a

428
00:16:04,644 --> 00:16:06,964
lot. Woah. Just put more ads in. I

429
00:16:06,964 --> 00:16:08,504
I had one doing programmatic

430
00:16:09,125 --> 00:16:12,725
that you know, our programmatic system works where

431
00:16:12,725 --> 00:16:14,245
you have a pre roll and a post

432
00:16:14,245 --> 00:16:14,745
roll.

433
00:16:15,679 --> 00:16:17,919
And then you can also put up to

434
00:16:17,919 --> 00:16:18,419
10

435
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:19,940
spots

436
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,059
inside your e each episode

437
00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:24,500
for mid rolls.

438
00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:27,679
And that, you know, that's all great, but

439
00:16:27,679 --> 00:16:29,679
I never recommend more than one or two

440
00:16:29,679 --> 00:16:30,659
in the mid rolls

441
00:16:31,335 --> 00:16:32,235
at the most.

442
00:16:32,855 --> 00:16:35,175
And Yeah. This person was complaining, well, I

443
00:16:35,175 --> 00:16:37,254
I I wanna put four more in here.

444
00:16:37,254 --> 00:16:39,495
You know? So they wanted 14 spots in

445
00:16:39,495 --> 00:16:40,795
a thirty minute episode.

446
00:16:41,415 --> 00:16:43,115
Oh, jeez. And I'm like,

447
00:16:43,549 --> 00:16:45,709
dude, you you know, it's like watching you

448
00:16:45,709 --> 00:16:48,189
know, if you ever watch Pluto TV, it's

449
00:16:48,189 --> 00:16:48,850
the streaming

450
00:16:49,309 --> 00:16:51,730
TV. Yeah. I mean, they have, you know,

451
00:16:51,789 --> 00:16:54,209
two minutes of ads to every three minutes

452
00:16:54,350 --> 00:16:56,189
of content. You don't want that in a

453
00:16:56,189 --> 00:16:56,689
podcast.

454
00:16:57,069 --> 00:16:59,355
You're gonna run your audience off.

455
00:17:00,074 --> 00:17:02,794
Yeah. You know? Also, getting ads that have

456
00:17:02,794 --> 00:17:06,015
nothing whatsoever to do with your subject matter

457
00:17:06,234 --> 00:17:08,474
are not gonna work as well as ads

458
00:17:08,474 --> 00:17:11,214
that are aligned with your subject matter.

459
00:17:11,710 --> 00:17:13,390
Yep. You know? Just,

460
00:17:13,789 --> 00:17:16,269
and even, you know, it's even better if

461
00:17:16,269 --> 00:17:18,769
you use the product and endorse it yourself.

462
00:17:19,549 --> 00:17:21,650
Mhmm. That's the best kind of advertising.

463
00:17:21,950 --> 00:17:24,049
Yeah. I mean, those tend to pay better

464
00:17:24,424 --> 00:17:25,644
anyway because they're,

465
00:17:26,105 --> 00:17:28,044
like, you know, working with a sponsor.

466
00:17:28,984 --> 00:17:31,704
But, yeah, I've I've seen people people do

467
00:17:31,704 --> 00:17:33,964
that. There was there was one show.

468
00:17:34,265 --> 00:17:36,119
I won't name names largely because I can't

469
00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,359
I can't remember who it was. But you

470
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,460
would you would literally sit through,

471
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,880
like, anywhere from five to ten minutes of

472
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:44,380
ads

473
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,359
before the show really started. And it was,

474
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,284
like, gross. Like,

475
00:17:50,744 --> 00:17:52,204
I don't mind ads. Like,

476
00:17:52,664 --> 00:17:55,065
I would rather pay, yeah, I would rather

477
00:17:55,065 --> 00:17:56,984
pay to not have ads. Like, I would

478
00:17:56,984 --> 00:17:59,224
give a couple dollars for that. Yeah. But

479
00:17:59,464 --> 00:18:02,329
One of the biggest podcasts out there would

480
00:18:02,329 --> 00:18:04,410
do six minutes of ads prior to the

481
00:18:04,410 --> 00:18:05,390
start of the show.

482
00:18:05,930 --> 00:18:06,990
Yeah. I just

483
00:18:07,369 --> 00:18:09,450
no. Thank you. I just wanna get in

484
00:18:09,450 --> 00:18:10,329
and get out,

485
00:18:11,529 --> 00:18:13,049
because we all got stuff to do with

486
00:18:13,049 --> 00:18:14,650
our day. Even with a podcast, I don't

487
00:18:14,650 --> 00:18:16,994
wanna sit there and listen to ads forever.

488
00:18:17,535 --> 00:18:20,035
So, yeah, be very cognizant of

489
00:18:21,134 --> 00:18:22,815
the kind of ads, you know. If it's

490
00:18:22,815 --> 00:18:24,755
like a McDonald's ad in front of

491
00:18:25,055 --> 00:18:27,775
your, you know, your pop culture podcast, which

492
00:18:27,775 --> 00:18:29,714
is my my soup du jour,

493
00:18:31,019 --> 00:18:31,519
Fine.

494
00:18:32,140 --> 00:18:33,200
Whatever. But,

495
00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:36,320
you know, try and be mindful

496
00:18:37,259 --> 00:18:38,619
of of what it is. You don't want

497
00:18:38,619 --> 00:18:40,480
a McDonald's ad in front of your,

498
00:18:40,779 --> 00:18:43,980
you know, healthy lifestyle podcast. Your weight loss

499
00:18:43,980 --> 00:18:46,365
podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And then to throw in

500
00:18:46,444 --> 00:18:47,505
even more of them,

501
00:18:48,045 --> 00:18:50,204
you know, you're gonna that's probably how you're

502
00:18:50,204 --> 00:18:52,684
gonna lose your audience more than you'll actually

503
00:18:52,684 --> 00:18:53,664
gain money.

504
00:18:54,125 --> 00:18:57,005
So Yeah. You know, it's the same advice

505
00:18:57,005 --> 00:18:58,304
I always give website

506
00:18:58,924 --> 00:18:59,424
developers

507
00:18:59,884 --> 00:19:01,105
about pop ups.

508
00:19:02,109 --> 00:19:04,210
You know? Yeah. You're gonna

509
00:19:04,750 --> 00:19:06,429
you know, pop ups, they they should be

510
00:19:06,509 --> 00:19:07,569
but they work.

511
00:19:07,950 --> 00:19:10,369
Well, yes. They work. You get 10

512
00:19:10,750 --> 00:19:13,309
people a day sign up for your email

513
00:19:13,309 --> 00:19:15,404
list on a pop up. Mhmm. But I

514
00:19:15,404 --> 00:19:17,805
bet you there was 50 people there, and

515
00:19:17,805 --> 00:19:20,125
40 of them said, screw this. I don't

516
00:19:20,125 --> 00:19:21,565
even know who you. I'm not gonna give

517
00:19:21,565 --> 00:19:22,785
you my email address.

518
00:19:23,565 --> 00:19:26,205
You know? And, you know, same idea with

519
00:19:26,205 --> 00:19:28,445
ads. You know? If you have relevant ads,

520
00:19:28,445 --> 00:19:30,465
you know, and a whole bunch of them,

521
00:19:30,660 --> 00:19:32,900
you know, eventually, people are just just saying,

522
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:35,000
I'm tired of hitting the fast forward button

523
00:19:35,619 --> 00:19:37,539
Yeah. To get to the content. You know,

524
00:19:37,539 --> 00:19:39,940
it's like in YouTube I've noticed on YouTube,

525
00:19:39,940 --> 00:19:41,240
this is kind of

526
00:19:42,180 --> 00:19:43,240
funny, I think,

527
00:19:43,755 --> 00:19:45,214
is there's an ad

528
00:19:45,515 --> 00:19:47,835
that's, you know, built right into the video,

529
00:19:47,835 --> 00:19:49,994
so it's not one of their programmatic ads

530
00:19:49,994 --> 00:19:50,974
from YouTube.

531
00:19:51,515 --> 00:19:53,195
It's a it's an ad that, you know,

532
00:19:53,195 --> 00:19:54,974
the host actually did.

533
00:19:55,434 --> 00:19:57,275
And you go up to the scroll line,

534
00:19:57,275 --> 00:19:59,710
and you'll see a little marker there. And

535
00:19:59,710 --> 00:20:02,509
if you to that marker, it'll say skipped

536
00:20:02,509 --> 00:20:03,009
over,

537
00:20:04,670 --> 00:20:05,570
skipped over

538
00:20:06,190 --> 00:20:07,950
I forget how they put it, but it's

539
00:20:07,950 --> 00:20:10,430
basically well, everybody skips this section, so we'll

540
00:20:10,430 --> 00:20:11,650
make a marker. Oh,

541
00:20:12,110 --> 00:20:13,970
yeah. I know exactly what it is.

542
00:20:16,484 --> 00:20:17,924
Yeah. I can't remember what it is. But

543
00:20:17,924 --> 00:20:18,744
I'm Frequently,

544
00:20:19,445 --> 00:20:21,924
frequently skipped content, I think, is what they

545
00:20:21,924 --> 00:20:23,924
call it. Yeah. It's something like that, which

546
00:20:23,924 --> 00:20:24,664
is funny.

547
00:20:24,965 --> 00:20:26,025
Yeah. It's hilarious.

548
00:20:26,325 --> 00:20:27,525
But, you know, it's just

549
00:20:28,250 --> 00:20:28,910
you know,

550
00:20:29,210 --> 00:20:31,070
people don't like ads that much.

551
00:20:31,609 --> 00:20:33,630
You know, they'll they'll put up with relevant

552
00:20:33,690 --> 00:20:36,029
ads. They'll put up with, you know, minimal

553
00:20:36,090 --> 00:20:36,590
ads.

554
00:20:37,369 --> 00:20:40,090
Mhmm. Yeah. Just more ads does not equal

555
00:20:40,090 --> 00:20:40,830
more revenue.

556
00:20:41,210 --> 00:20:43,070
It it actually equals less listeners.

557
00:20:43,644 --> 00:20:45,424
Yeah. I I will I will say this.

558
00:20:45,565 --> 00:20:47,904
If you are doing ads in your show,

559
00:20:49,244 --> 00:20:51,804
and they're interesting, if you even if it's

560
00:20:51,804 --> 00:20:54,444
like a, you know, a VPN ad, which

561
00:20:54,444 --> 00:20:56,144
we see all the time over YouTube,

562
00:20:56,819 --> 00:20:57,319
Sometimes,

563
00:20:57,619 --> 00:21:00,259
there are some shows, and I'm talking podcasts.

564
00:21:00,259 --> 00:21:01,720
I'm talking YouTube videos.

565
00:21:02,339 --> 00:21:03,640
If they can do it

566
00:21:04,179 --> 00:21:05,799
in a way that is entertaining,

567
00:21:06,099 --> 00:21:07,619
I will sit there and I will listen

568
00:21:07,619 --> 00:21:10,019
to the thirty seconds to minute and a

569
00:21:10,019 --> 00:21:10,519
half

570
00:21:10,819 --> 00:21:11,319
ad

571
00:21:11,619 --> 00:21:14,445
because that's enjoyable, and it's still kind of

572
00:21:14,445 --> 00:21:15,424
part of the content.

573
00:21:15,884 --> 00:21:18,045
So there's maybe a way to kind of

574
00:21:18,045 --> 00:21:19,265
subvert some expectations

575
00:21:19,965 --> 00:21:21,025
when it comes to ads.

576
00:21:21,404 --> 00:21:21,904
Right.

577
00:21:22,365 --> 00:21:22,865
But,

578
00:21:23,805 --> 00:21:25,585
alright. Let's go on to the

579
00:21:26,650 --> 00:21:28,670
fifth thing on our list here,

580
00:21:29,130 --> 00:21:30,190
the real monetization

581
00:21:30,650 --> 00:21:32,589
formula for independent podcasters.

582
00:21:32,970 --> 00:21:34,910
Like, we we know what we're doing here.

583
00:21:36,009 --> 00:21:37,150
Oh, I hope so.

584
00:21:38,009 --> 00:21:38,509
Yeah.

585
00:21:38,890 --> 00:21:39,710
So, basically,

586
00:21:41,438 --> 00:21:44,984
you know, successful independent podcasters usually follow, you

587
00:21:44,984 --> 00:21:46,765
know, these these few things.

588
00:21:47,705 --> 00:21:49,565
You know, define your clear audience.

589
00:21:49,945 --> 00:21:51,705
You know, make sure you get to know

590
00:21:51,705 --> 00:21:54,025
who your audience is or who you want

591
00:21:54,025 --> 00:21:55,884
them to be, I guess, is is

592
00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:56,970
another.

593
00:21:58,870 --> 00:21:59,769
Build consistent

594
00:22:00,070 --> 00:22:03,130
and valuable content. Again, make good content.

595
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:07,990
You know? And I'd you know, identify what

596
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:08,730
that audience

597
00:22:10,105 --> 00:22:12,264
already spends their money on. It might be

598
00:22:12,264 --> 00:22:14,345
a little harder to do. We have a

599
00:22:14,345 --> 00:22:16,505
thing at Blueberry where you can set up

600
00:22:16,505 --> 00:22:17,005
a

601
00:22:17,865 --> 00:22:18,684
a survey,

602
00:22:19,304 --> 00:22:21,224
and that'll tell you a little bit more

603
00:22:21,224 --> 00:22:23,144
about your audience and you know, but you

604
00:22:23,144 --> 00:22:25,039
gotta get them just to to fill it

605
00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:27,440
out. So, you know, this is an audio

606
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,019
medium, so put the ask in the audio,

607
00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:31,700
not a link in your show notes.

608
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:32,740
Yep.

609
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:33,539
And

610
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,839
and then, of course, you know, align the

611
00:22:35,839 --> 00:22:36,339
monetization

612
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,420
with, you know, whatever need

613
00:22:38,984 --> 00:22:41,085
that your audience comes up with.

614
00:22:43,704 --> 00:22:46,345
Yeah. I think if, you know, going back

615
00:22:46,345 --> 00:22:48,025
to what we talked about before, if if

616
00:22:48,025 --> 00:22:49,644
you have a podcast where

617
00:22:50,664 --> 00:22:51,964
some written content

618
00:22:54,309 --> 00:22:56,630
would be the best way for your audience

619
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:58,549
to engage with you. Like, sure, they're listening

620
00:22:58,549 --> 00:23:00,470
to you, but maybe you're an author, you're

621
00:23:00,470 --> 00:23:02,250
a storyteller, something like that.

622
00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:04,890
Having, like, an ebook or just a PDF

623
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:06,869
or, you know, some tips and trip

624
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:08,730
tips and tricks things,

625
00:23:10,085 --> 00:23:10,744
you know,

626
00:23:11,365 --> 00:23:14,744
that that will connect to that audience better

627
00:23:15,204 --> 00:23:16,345
than having

628
00:23:17,125 --> 00:23:19,384
minute and a half long ads for,

629
00:23:19,684 --> 00:23:21,865
you know, whatever the most popular

630
00:23:22,244 --> 00:23:23,384
mattress is.

631
00:23:24,349 --> 00:23:26,670
Because in the early days of podcasting, I

632
00:23:26,670 --> 00:23:28,049
know Mike probably remembers,

633
00:23:28,430 --> 00:23:30,450
Casper mattresses were everywhere.

634
00:23:30,990 --> 00:23:33,089
Like, everybody had a Casper

635
00:23:33,630 --> 00:23:34,769
I have one. Sponsorship.

636
00:23:35,710 --> 00:23:37,809
I never did. I wanted one,

637
00:23:38,404 --> 00:23:40,345
but, just because I wanted a mattress.

638
00:23:41,444 --> 00:23:41,944
Yeah.

639
00:23:43,044 --> 00:23:43,544
But,

640
00:23:44,005 --> 00:23:46,585
you know, people will get burned out on

641
00:23:47,764 --> 00:23:48,664
the mismatched,

642
00:23:49,924 --> 00:23:50,424
monetization

643
00:23:50,804 --> 00:23:53,204
options, whether that's ads or if you're just

644
00:23:53,204 --> 00:23:54,024
not offering,

645
00:23:54,430 --> 00:23:55,890
quote, unquote, the right product.

646
00:23:57,950 --> 00:24:00,670
It it just it needs to feel natural

647
00:24:00,670 --> 00:24:02,769
and, like, you are choosing it.

648
00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:05,970
Yeah. You know? Even even with programmatic advertising,

649
00:24:06,109 --> 00:24:06,849
you can

650
00:24:07,630 --> 00:24:09,410
trim down what categories,

651
00:24:11,134 --> 00:24:14,015
that are being delivered to your show your

652
00:24:14,015 --> 00:24:16,174
audience. So make sure you go through those

653
00:24:16,174 --> 00:24:17,234
options. And

654
00:24:17,615 --> 00:24:19,214
even if that means you only have one

655
00:24:19,214 --> 00:24:21,375
category left, at least you know and you

656
00:24:21,375 --> 00:24:22,275
can be confident

657
00:24:22,654 --> 00:24:25,069
that your audience is getting something

658
00:24:25,369 --> 00:24:28,650
that connects with your show. Right. You know,

659
00:24:28,650 --> 00:24:29,150
just

660
00:24:29,769 --> 00:24:32,109
podcast here's the beauty of podcasting.

661
00:24:32,490 --> 00:24:33,309
It's not

662
00:24:33,849 --> 00:24:37,049
just content. It's usually our relationship with your

663
00:24:37,049 --> 00:24:37,549
listeners.

664
00:24:38,524 --> 00:24:41,484
And that will, you know, by itself, create

665
00:24:41,484 --> 00:24:42,944
some revenue opportunities.

666
00:24:44,444 --> 00:24:47,244
You know, it's not about chasing trends or

667
00:24:47,244 --> 00:24:50,065
copying shows. There's already a Joe Rogan podcast

668
00:24:50,125 --> 00:24:52,329
out there. You don't need to copy Joe

669
00:24:52,329 --> 00:24:54,990
Rogan. In fact, that probably won't work.

670
00:24:55,529 --> 00:24:58,250
Right. You know, years ago, there was, John

671
00:24:58,250 --> 00:24:58,990
Lee Dumas,

672
00:24:59,690 --> 00:25:02,490
does a show still, E on Fire or

673
00:25:02,490 --> 00:25:02,990
Entrepreneurs

674
00:25:03,289 --> 00:25:05,150
on Fire or whatever he calls it.

675
00:25:05,625 --> 00:25:08,265
And his formula is to ask the same

676
00:25:08,265 --> 00:25:10,404
12 questions to to,

677
00:25:11,144 --> 00:25:13,644
entrepreneurs, and it works for him.

678
00:25:14,025 --> 00:25:16,585
But Mhmm. You know, we don't need 70

679
00:25:16,585 --> 00:25:19,085
other whatever on fire podcasts.

680
00:25:19,869 --> 00:25:22,289
Right. You know, it's just not gonna work.

681
00:25:22,750 --> 00:25:25,869
So, you know, be yourself and create those

682
00:25:25,869 --> 00:25:26,369
relationships,

683
00:25:27,710 --> 00:25:29,970
and that's gonna help you grow your audience.

684
00:25:30,349 --> 00:25:32,429
And the bigger the show, the easier it

685
00:25:32,429 --> 00:25:33,250
is to monetize.

686
00:25:33,710 --> 00:25:35,615
But that's not always,

687
00:25:36,555 --> 00:25:37,694
you know, necessary

688
00:25:39,035 --> 00:25:40,494
to bring in some money.

689
00:25:41,275 --> 00:25:41,775
Yep.

690
00:25:43,355 --> 00:25:45,275
So I guess we could wrap this up.

691
00:25:45,275 --> 00:25:47,035
So if you take anything away from this

692
00:25:47,035 --> 00:25:49,230
episode, you don't need to be huge to

693
00:25:49,230 --> 00:25:51,089
monetize. You need to be intentional.

694
00:25:52,910 --> 00:25:55,630
We definitely recommend that you focus on serving

695
00:25:55,630 --> 00:25:56,690
your audience well.

696
00:25:57,230 --> 00:26:00,210
And when you do that, the right revenue

697
00:26:00,269 --> 00:26:01,569
opportunities are

698
00:26:02,125 --> 00:26:04,304
gonna make sense. They're gonna show themselves

699
00:26:04,605 --> 00:26:06,224
to you to put it in a

700
00:26:07,005 --> 00:26:08,544
esoteric kind of way.

701
00:26:08,845 --> 00:26:10,444
Right. And like I said, if you're not

702
00:26:10,444 --> 00:26:12,525
sure where to start, look at what you're

703
00:26:12,525 --> 00:26:13,825
already doing well,

704
00:26:14,284 --> 00:26:15,424
you know, your expertise,

705
00:26:15,724 --> 00:26:17,025
your niche, your community,

706
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:18,700
and that's your monetization

707
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:20,119
for,

708
00:26:20,599 --> 00:26:21,099
foundation

709
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,940
rather than, you know, let's try something completely

710
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,339
new. You know? Just do what you do.

711
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,660
Yeah. Don't wanna blindside your audience.

712
00:26:30,279 --> 00:26:30,779
Yeah.

713
00:26:31,615 --> 00:26:32,115
So,

714
00:26:32,654 --> 00:26:34,335
I I guess that's it. Thank you so

715
00:26:34,335 --> 00:26:36,434
much for listening to Podcast Insider.

716
00:26:36,734 --> 00:26:38,595
We will talk to you next week.

717
00:26:38,974 --> 00:26:42,095
And, for the full show notes and, probably

718
00:26:42,095 --> 00:26:44,255
some other stuff we didn't talk about here,

719
00:26:44,255 --> 00:26:47,730
go over to podcastinsider.com.

720
00:26:49,150 --> 00:26:51,869
Thanks for joining us. Come back next week.

721
00:26:51,869 --> 00:26:55,470
And in the meantime, head to podcastinsider.com

722
00:26:55,470 --> 00:26:56,450
for more information,

723
00:26:56,830 --> 00:26:57,490
to subscribe,

724
00:26:58,269 --> 00:27:00,369
share, and read our show notes.

725
00:27:00,815 --> 00:27:02,755
To check out our latest suite of services

726
00:27:02,815 --> 00:27:05,954
and learn how Blueberry can help you leverage

727
00:27:06,095 --> 00:27:09,214
your podcast, visit blueberry.com.

728
00:27:09,214 --> 00:27:12,255
That's Blueberry without the e's. We couldn't afford

729
00:27:12,255 --> 00:27:12,994
the e's.